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Thread: Cow hunts:

  1. #1
    Member Rock_skipper's Avatar
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    Default Cow hunts:

    Of all that have had a differant opioun about this there is a artical in the www.newsminer.com about the new A.C Members and what they thought of the topic, and why they wanted to be in on this.

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    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    http://newsminer.com/view/full_story...ory-Committee? Not sure what it proves. They have an agenda and that agenda may or may not be correct.

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    Member Rock_skipper's Avatar
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    Not saying it proves anything Doug except that there are others out that are concerned with the amount of cows that are being killed off.

    There was another artical last week about how they reduced the amount of cows that they will take this year because of not seeing that many in the surveys.

    I'm just glad we got some guys in there to bring this to light.

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    Hi There Guys I Have A Few Concerns One They Are Killing The Bulls In The Anlterless Hunts That Go On In To Feb That We Can't Hunt In The Regular Season Unless They Are Spike Fork Fifty , Two I Asked Don If He Was Counting The Moose In The Inpact Area's In The Tanana Flats And Blair Lakes And Across From Ft Greely, He Told Me Yes I Have To. The Way I Look At It Do They Don't Count The Moose In Denali Park You Can't Hunt There So Why Are We Counting Them In The Impact Area's You Can't Hunt There Ether They Are Closed Area's, In The Past Few Years With The Antlerless Hunts And The Cow Hunts The Trappers Are Not Have Good Luck Catching Wolfs With People Running Up And Down The Trails There Trying To Snare. The Grizzly Population In The Flats Are High Something Needs To Be Done With Them To. I Don't Know Where They Are Counting There Moose I Ran All Over There This Fall And Seen At The Most Maybe Eight Moose And If It Was'nt For Getting Rid Of The Calf Hunt They Would Not Have Been Out There Ether. One Of The Things I Don't Want To See Is Are Area Turning In To An Area Like The Kenai Where The Only Thing You Can Hunt There Is Fifty And Four Brow Tine Thanks To The Biolgists . They Have Lots Of Cows With Twins Down There But They Also Have Lots Of Preditors That They Are Not Taking Care Of. As It Is It Is Going To Take Years For The Moose To Come Back If We Don't Do Some Thing Know.

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    Member .338-06's Avatar
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    Hey Skip? Is your keyboard set up to capitalize the first letter of each word, or is this something you're doing on purpose. 'Cause I don't know about anybody else, but I find it really hard to read your post.
    I may be slow, but I get where I'm going!

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    Quote Originally Posted by .338-06 View Post
    'Cause I don't know about anybody else, but I find it really hard to read your post.
    yup
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    Quote Originally Posted by skip olsen View Post
    Hi There Guys I Have A Few Concerns
    1) They Are Killing The Bulls In The Anlterless Hunts That Go On In To Feb That We Can't Hunt In The Regular Season Unless They Are Spike Fork Fifty ,
    2) I Asked Don If He Was Counting The Moose In The Inpact Area's In The Tanana Flats And Blair Lakes And Across From Ft Greely, Answer: He Told Me Yes I Have To.
    a. The Way I Look At It Do They Don't Count The Moose In Denali Park You Can't Hunt There So Why Are We Counting Them In The Impact Area's You Can't Hunt There Ether They Are Closed Area's,
    b. In The Past Few Years With The Antlerless Hunts And The Cow Hunts The Trappers Are Not Have Good Luck Catching Wolfs With People Running Up And Down The Trails There Trying To Snare.
    c. The Grizzly Population In The Flats Are High Something Needs To Be Done With Them To.
    3. I Don't Know Where They Are Counting There Moose I Ran All Over There This Fall And Seen At The Most Maybe Eight Moose And If It Was'nt For Getting Rid Of The Calf Hunt They Would Not Have Been Out There Ether.

    One Of The Things I Don't Want To See Is Are Area Turning In To An Area Like The Kenai Where The Only Thing You Can Hunt There Is Fifty And Four Brow Tine Thanks To The Biolgists . They Have Lots Of Cows With Twins Down There But They Also Have Lots Of Preditors That They Are Not Taking Care Of. As It Is It Is Going To Take Years For The Moose To Come Back If We Don't Do Some Thing Know.
    I think you have some interesting points so I manipulated your format a bit. Hope you don't mind.

    After reading the reports, the densities vary from location to location within the unit. I'm sure that you'd see the same critters on the ground if you were in the plane with them.

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    Member skip olsen's Avatar
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    Thank You For Doing That

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    I saw moose out there. Took me two days to find a legal bull and harvest it. But I am parking my boat and hiking into the meadows. The harvest rates and hunter effort have ramained constant in 20A indicating that nothing has changed. I think the moose are leary of motors and are seeking cover when they hear them, making some guys think all the moose are gone. The tracks tell me otherwise.

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    It would have been nice if Mowry had provided the numbers.

    Cow/calf ratio
    Bull/cow ratio
    Twinning rates
    calving rates
    calf survival
    calf weight
    short yearling weight

    Those facts are indicators of herd health and habitat conditions but as usual the News Miner prefers to select personal emotion as the criteria for managing our wildlife.

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    Huh We saw plenty of moose in the zone we were in don't know what the big concern is? The cows we did see all had calves with them which I thought was good and this year we did not see any wolf sign like we did last year. I guess if I couldn't run the wood river and not shoot a moose off the river bank I would be pissed off too and blame the winter hunts.

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    I saw the exact opposite in 20b where I hunted this year towards skinny dicks. I was out 10 days and probably saw 14-15 cows/calfs and only saw 1 bull the day BEFORE the season opened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bsj425 View Post
    I saw the exact opposite in 20b where I hunted this year towards skinny dicks. I was out 10 days and probably saw 14-15 cows/calfs and only saw 1 bull the day BEFORE the season opened.
    We were hunting in 20a last week and moose were running all over the place

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    Not saying anything 323, lol, but at -40 moose are not running all over the place.

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    Member Rock_skipper's Avatar
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    And heres another thought,

    If you were out there last week when it warmed up for a couple of days I would venture that the moose were doing the same.

    People don't understad that the moose come out of the hills and group up in the winters and thats when the counts are done.

    Hell shoot the cows of and put meat on the table today and then you will have not only less moose but an over abundance of bulls.

    Now you have to change the senerio again.

    This argument about graze is bunk, if they run out of feed in one place they will move to another, its kinda like climate control, once they stick that seed into everbodys brain it's true with no proof.

    And yet one more thought being as this is coming up before the ACs, is that you have two differant kind of moose.

    You have the residantial moose that stay in the tanana valley all the time, then you have the moose that migrat from the upper hills from wether it be the salcha range, goodpaster range or any other range. They mix with the valley moose and you don't know which one you are shooting.

    They are like fish, they go back to thier ranges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock_skipper View Post
    Not saying anything 323, lol, but at -40 moose are not running all over the place.
    LOL oh you silly goose we had one day it was -40 monday then it warmed up to 14 tuesday where we were at. Weds was pretty nice day as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bsj425 View Post
    I saw the exact opposite in 20b where I hunted this year towards skinny dicks. I was out 10 days and probably saw 14-15 cows/calfs and only saw 1 bull the day BEFORE the season opened.
    At the remainder of 20B between Washington Creek and Livingood, my hunting partners and I usually see perhaps three of four cows, some with calves. When we see cows around we watch carefully because most times bulls follow, specially by the second week of September.

    But this year F&G opened a cow hunt throughout the regular moose season. The season was extended from the 1st to the 20th. Anyway, there war cow hunters all over the place, the cows were killed, and we din't see a moose until Saturday a day or two the season ended. One of my hunting partners killed it, but we found the F&G move to have antler-less hunts at the same time as regular seasons...quite annoying and stupid. I did manage to see a cow, still alive, far away from the crowd of hunters near the trails, far out of reach. But that was it.

    Another thing that bothers me about cow hunts is the late-season cows are already pregnant and being killed, since this means that future bulls die with the cow. I remember three or more years ago, I could see cows and calves all over Chena Lakes, the Flood Project, and the Chena Recreation area. By the sloughs at Dawson Road and Mistletoe, and Badger. I used to see them at my backyard, and even dead ones hit by cars. Last year I saw a moose at the slough by Dawson, and a cow and calf over by the boat landing at the Chena Recreation area. That was it.

    Now when I look for moose to photograph I can only find them, if lucky that day, by Chena Hot Springs Road. In my view F&G has overdone it with the cow or antler-less hunts.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Moose_3273.jpg  

  18. #18
    Member Steve Springer's Avatar
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    Default Re-establish the Cow hunts

    I was at the meeting, here is what I remember F&G stating:
    Bull/Cow ratio was 30/100
    Twinning rates were real low compared to areas with less moose density
    Total Moose Population was around 15,000
    Management objective was 10,000 to 12,000
    Browse studies indicate poor habitat health

    F&G could tweak the regs a little, but these hunts are not going to hurt the population they want to manage the moose at the high end of the 10 - 12 thousand.

    Remember folks they are mandated by AK statutes.

    Hunting the surplus cows gives kids a chance for success

    Letting the moose population grow past their carrying capacity will cause a crash....this is basic science and has been seen to occur time and time again.

    F&G isn't looking at taking a huge number of cows. I think it's like 2% of the population. That's not going to decimate the population.

    I hunt 20A and 20B and get a moose every year. There are plenty of moose around.

    I testified for the AC to re-establish the cow hunts, because I trust F&G, their presentation speaks on real science and for itself, not conjecture.

    Let F&G manage the heard to keep it at 12,000 which bty is still the highest density of moose in the state.

  19. #19
    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .338-06 View Post
    Hey Skip? Is your keyboard set up to capitalize the first letter of each word, or is this something you're doing on purpose. 'Cause I don't know about anybody else, but I find it really hard to read your post.
    Looks like some teacher along the way got a little over-zealous in teaching capitals...
    ... but his points make sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Springer View Post
    I was at the meeting, here is what I remember F&G stating:
    Bull/Cow ratio was 30/100
    Twinning rates were real low compared to areas with less moose density
    Total Moose Population was around 15,000
    Management objective was 10,000 to 12,000
    Browse studies indicate poor habitat health

    F&G could tweak the regs a little, but these hunts are not going to hurt the population they want to manage the moose at the high end of the 10 - 12 thousand.

    Remember folks they are mandated by AK statutes.

    Hunting the surplus cows gives kids a chance for success

    Letting the moose population grow past their carrying capacity will cause a crash....this is basic science and has been seen to occur time and time again.

    F&G isn't looking at taking a huge number of cows. I think it's like 2% of the population. That's not going to decimate the population.

    I hunt 20A and 20B and get a moose every year. There are plenty of moose around.

    I testified for the AC to re-establish the cow hunts, because I trust F&G, their presentation speaks on real science and for itself, not conjecture.

    Let F&G manage the heard to keep it at 12,000 which bty is still the highest density of moose in the state.
    If you hunt 20B you probably already know that past Fox on the Elliott we have had numerous wildfires for the past 30 years, and that there is more than plenty of moose food. Just fly over the area and you will see huge burned-out fields that now have lots of low growth vegetation for moose to eat.

    We have several wildfires that burn thousands of acres of forests each summer, plus controlled fires conducted by F&G to create moose habitats.

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