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Thread: Muzzle Safety

  1. #1
    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Default Muzzle Safety

    Yet another "accidental" discharge resulting in an innocent individual being seriously injured.

    http://www.newsminer.com/view/full_s...w_left_bullets

    As is typically the case, the irresponsible person in the above story violated every one of the basic rules of firearms safety:


    The First Four Rules of Gun Safety:

    1. The gun is always loaded.
    2. Never point a gun at something you are not prepared to destroy.
    3. Always be sure of your target and what is behind it.
    4. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.


    If you are reading this and for any reason disagree with any of the above rules, or are otherwise simply unable to comprehend these rules and burn them indelibly into the subconscious of your very tiny little brain, please do the rest of us a favor and remove yourself from the gene pool.
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    Member JOAT's Avatar
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    I do disagree with your posting of the rules. You got 'em in the wrong order! And it's not the "first" 4 rules; it's just the "4 rules". As originally conceived by Cooper, they go like this...


    The Four General Safety Rules:

    1- All Guns are always loaded
    2- Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy
    3- Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target and you are ready to fire
    4- Be sure of the target, as well as the surroundings and beyond

    Other than that, I agree with your sentiment. We should have these 4 rules taught to the public starting in elementary school right along with look both ways and stop, drop, and roll. Education is key.
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  3. #3
    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    I don't care to argue nuances of order with anyone. One can find many variations on the theme, including lengthy lists of additional rules. The first four are most important. Learn them and live them.

    Above I posted the first four as prescribed by the IDPA: http://www.idpa.com/

    The NRA has distilled them down to just three: http://www.nrahq.org/education/guide.asp

    As attributed to Jeff Cooper: http://thefiringline.com/Misc/safetyrules.html

    Additionally, every firearms manufacturer posts them on their sites and prints them in their owners manuals, and they can be found posted by many other organizations in countless other locations.

    I don't care where you learn them, how you learn them, or in exactly what order you learn them. LEARN THEM! and LIVE BY THEM!
    And insist that those around you do too!

    Or kindly remove yourself from my planet.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
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    I agree with both of ya and this was a stupid preventable deal. There are times when itís necessary to brake one of the rules but to shoot someone means all or at least most of them were broken at the same time showing a totally careless disregard for basic safety.

    Education is key, absolutely! If you have a gun it stands to reason you should be educated but we should be teaching weapon safety to every kid in every grade in every school. Not just guns, I have been shocked in recent years how many people slide their thumb length wise over one of my razor sharp knifes as they ask me ďis it sharp?Ē Itís a knife idiot, it ainít no good dull . . . need a Band-Aid?

    Teach more than just to leave a gun alone and tell an adult like the Edie Eagle program. Thatís a good starting point for little ones, but kids need to learn to respect weapons, know what they can do, feel the destructive power, understand the real and lasting damage not respecting them can have. Then progress to basic safe handling because you know at some point every kid will handle a gun . . . the more they are told not to the more it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, someday they WILL handle a gun so lets teach them how to safely do so.

    We teach kids sex-ed but not that it isnít safe to point an ďemptyĒ gun at someone????
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    Member JOAT's Avatar
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    Yeah, they bent over on the sex-ed stuff cuz they say that telling a kid not to have sex would simply encourage them to do so. In the next breath they say that the only way to deal with guns is to just forbid the kids from touching them, thinking about them, or even drawing pictures of them. Both sides of the mouth.
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    Not an accident at all,negligent assault.Stupid is not a accident but a choice
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    I agree with Amigo Will, that was not accident by any means, that was a negligent discharge that caused serious injury. Best wishes to the toddler and family for a full recovery !

  8. #8

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    The person shot later lost the leg.

    I will keep keep reminding myself of these rules.
    Pass the rulse on!

    thanks!

  9. #9
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    I have never had an AD. I will admit though to once managing to have a 308 round manage to find its way home in the chamber of a rifle. I can't say that I always point my rifle at something that I intend to destroy when I clear it but I do point it in a safe direction at something I am willing to repair. In this case I was more than a little surprised as I pulled the bolt back and an unfired cartridge was flung across the room!!

    I set a rule after that so now before we take a rifle from the bench that we announce it as clear verbally while checking the chamber AND magazine visually. I also check them all again before securing them in their cases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JOAT View Post
    I do disagree with your posting of the rules. You got 'em in the wrong order! And it's not the "first" 4 rules; it's just the "4 rules". As originally conceived by Cooper, they go like this...


    The Four General Safety Rules:

    1- All Guns are always loaded
    2- Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy
    3- Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target and you are ready to fire
    4- Be sure of the target, as well as the surroundings and beyond

    Other than that, I agree with your sentiment. We should have these 4 rules taught to the public starting in elementary school right along with look both ways and stop, drop, and roll. Education is key.
    I love this.

    If you are reading this and for any reason disagree with any of the above rules, or are otherwise simply unable to comprehend these rules and burn them indelibly into the subconscious of your very tiny little brain, please do the rest of us a favor and remove yourself from the gene pool.

    I think I prefer this order of the rules.

    I believe the "guy" who dropped the hammer committed a felony.....felonious stupidity....is still a crime.

    Willful endangerment: Committing an act, which a reasonable and prudent person would know, could cause bodily harm to another. Willfully endangering the life or well being of another.

    All four rules were violated!!
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    I have never had an AD. I will admit though to once managing to have a 308 round manage to find its way home in the chamber of a rifle. I can't say that I always point my rifle at something that I intend to destroy when I clear it but I do point it in a safe direction at something I am willing to repair. In this case I was more than a little surprised as I pulled the bolt back and an unfired cartridge was flung across the room!!

    I set a rule after that so now before we take a rifle from the bench that we announce it as clear verbally while checking the chamber AND magazine visually. I also check them all again before securing them in their cases.
    Open my safe and you will see a wide open actions or empty chamber flags on every stored gun, they come home that way. I have loaded guns but those are under my direct and constant supervision.
     
    Accidents can happen but if the rules are followed even a little the chance of killing someone is very remote . . . here there was a total disregard for the rules, that isn't an accident it's negligent homicide (failure to exercise the care that a reasonably prudent person would) looking for a victim.
     
    I hope the kid does well, terrible that the child is paying for the flat out stupidity of the guy next door!
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    I know that the AD up for discussion happened with an adult.

    But, how soon do you teach a child, other than to leave guns alone?

    I have a 4 year old grandson, who spends a lot of time with me. So far, I've not taught him anything except to leave them alone, telling him they are dangerous. That's what I did with my girls, and let them shoot later when they were older. ?? what age that was ??

    Neither of they were that interested in guns.

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    Smitty,

    IMO, a parent/guardian (or grandparent) needs to take the "mystery" out of firearms for kiddos at a young age. My 4yo boy (as well as my three daughters when they were young) has fired both my .22 buckmark and the .22 Henry Mini-bolt rifle. Granted, he can't aim worth beans, but he knows what happens when the trigger is pulled and he knows which way to point the muzzle.

    I think too many times parents/guardians think keeping kids completely away from guns is the best approach. The problem is when they come across weapons when no one is around to keep them away. Curiosity takes over and people get hurt because they have no idea what they are doing. If a child is taught the rules early on, they at least know in the back of their mind what to do. Whether they actually choose to do the right thing or not is another story.
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    My kids see them so much that they just don't care. They have been "shooting" them as soon as they could wrap their arms around one and express an interest. Sure they rarely hit what they are aiming at for the first little while but there is absolutely no mystery there at all. There has been a 7mm Rem mag sitting next to my desk here for over a month as I am very slowly fitting a stock to it. in my spare time. The kids bounce in and out all the time and about all I ever here regarding the rifle is "Dad, when are you going to FINISH that thing?". Basically they know exactly what they are and that they aren't to be touched unless under direct supervision. If they want to touch them it doesn't take much prodding to get me to load a few up in the truck to go somewhere that it can be done safely.

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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    Nothing pizzes me off more than idiots with guns, especially when they injure an innocent child.

    As far as when to teach kids or grandkids about firearm safety, I'm of the opinion they are never too young. I don't recall how old my kids were when I first taught them firearm safety, but I'd venture it was shortly after they started talking. Anytime they showed an interest in guns, I'd take it as an opporunity to teach them firearm safety.
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  16. #16

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    I have seen on more than one occasion, and it likely happened in this case, where the person with the gun felt they WERE pointing the gun in a safe direction regarding their immediate surroundings yet failed to consider the other side of the wall or some other barrier that they subconsciously perceived as a "safe" backdrop.

  17. #17
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    Smitty it sounds like you are right on track.

    Knowing what they are and that they can bite, the sooner the better in my book. We have always stressed the 4 rules from very early on, soon as they show any interest at all in my family. It gets handled just like a kid in the kitchen reaching for a cook pot handle on the stove ďno baby, that will heart you, see itís full of hot stuff, feel the heat . . . see it's OUCHYĒ

    Acutely handling is treated just like that cooking pot, chopping knife, or microwave also, starting slowly, showing, helping, teaching, testing, interacting as you go and building on what they know. By 6 or 7 kids in our family will begin to automatically check and clear a 22 in a safe manner when one is handed to them. By 8 or 10 they are more competent with rifle safty than most adults I see at the range.
     
    It doesnít happen over night, there is no set age as every kid is different, girls tend to be more trust worthy sooner but itís like teaching a kid anything, teach it step by step at their pace.
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    Quote Originally Posted by evandailey View Post
    I have seen on more than one occasion, and it likely happened in this case, where the person with the gun felt they WERE pointing the gun in a safe direction regarding their immediate surroundings yet failed to consider the other side of the wall or some other barrier that they subconsciously perceived as a "safe" backdrop.
    Be that as it may, it never excuses Rule #1; Treat every gun as though it were LOADED !

    Drop the hammer on a loaded chamber and the round fires.

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    Regarding my grandson, I intend to train him about firearms, of course, and that's to keep him safe.

    I gonna wait though, until he can learn to put the butt stock against his shoulder, instead of under his arm like kids tend to do.

    When he learns to cast with a rod, using an open face spinning reel, I figger the time will be about right. Kids learn reely fast.

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    Usually when there is an incident like this, most of the rules have been broken. I think if there was only one safety rule "Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy." almost all neglegent shootings would be prevented. Now this guy may not have known what his muzzle was covering but if you are not aware of what your muzzle is covering you need to wake up and pay attention.
    I'm for training the youngsters as soon as they are capable of understanding what your trying to teach them. Forbidden fruit is always the most inticing.

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