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Thread: Time to hang the flag upside down, the fort has been captured.

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    Default Time to hang the flag upside down, the fort has been captured.

    It only takes a few nutjobs misbehaving with sporting arms and we will all be in terrorist internment camps.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/ron-p...ifying-2011-12

    Good luck fellow citizens, and Merry Christmas to all courtesy of the United States Senate.

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    I have seen a number of references to this "2012 National Defense Act" pop up in a number of places. While I do not profess to know anything about it, I do rely on the NRA to keep me up to date on gun control problems. No only have I not received anything from the NRA about this act, when I go to the NRA site and search for it, nothing comes up at all.
    NRA Life Member since 1974

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    Member GD Yankee's Avatar
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    Did you click on the link to the author of the "Businessinsider" article? Looks like some skinny kid desperately trying to grow a beard who lives in his parents basement. Check out the open closet in the background. I'll get my "sky is falling" information elsewhere.

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    GD, because he's young and you envision him in a basement you de-ligitimize his argument. I've not even read the article but you spin the posting criticizing the authors looks and not his words. Why?

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    GDY... maybe you need to take a 2nd look. The picture of the guy is from a ballroom with tables of people in the background. He's not a kid and actually runs his own financial services company. Thus, he's actually a business executive and has quite a bit of clout if one were to do a couple minutes of search-n-read about him.

    The link provided is to Business Insider, which is a reputable new outlet. The reference article is by David Seaman who is a freelance writer for BI, which is owned and operated by another agency.

    While the NRA hasn't released anything about the 2012 NDAA, they supported the 2011 NDAA and there are a number of articles on their site about that. Here's an example... http://www.nraila.org/Issues/Article...=462&issue=010

    And here's the link to the 2012 NDAA (I haven't read it yet, thus have no comment about it yet)... http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-1...12hr1540rh.pdf
    Winter is Coming...

    Go GeocacheAlaska!

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    Actually, the 2012 NDAA is very real but a) there is a clause in it that says "not required to detain American citizens", and b) President Obama (and I'm not a supporter of his) said he'd veto the 2012 NDAA if it got that far. I like Obama's response (but it makes me wonder what 'even worse' thing is around the corner) but I don't like the "not required" verbiage about American citizens. It's eye candy ..."not required" doesn't mean "cannot". This is the main reason this act has been as controversial as it has. I think it's co-sponsored by McCain BTW... but that needs verification. Either way, I don't think it'll go anywhere as written but expect it to be tweaked and to come back again ...and need new evaluation etcetera. Always ask yourself what the intent is behind any acts or bills that are being voted on and decide for yourself if they make proper sense and are the best way to meet the intent ...then write to your representatives. It's especially important to think through all possible unintended consequences ...our congress is especially good at passing bills with lots of unacceptable unintended consequences!

    Brian

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    Koodo's to tananaBrian. You got all of it right especially the "not required" part.

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    Member GD Yankee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightSunRebel View Post
    GD, because he's young and you envision him in a basement you de-ligitimize his argument. I've not even read the article but you spin the posting criticizing the authors looks and not his words. Why?
    Ok. I listened to his video explaining his opposition to the bill, again. My impression stands. I'll do some more research, but I'll stand by John McCain as an American before I support this guy. I'll do more research on the bill and this guy and then post with more than my first impression.

    I stand by my sarcastic remark about the "sky is falling." I am sick and tired of guys like this posting apocalyptic pronouncements about how the US military (and politicians) is going to turn our country into a "fascist" military/police state. As a veteran, I find this incredibly insulting. It ain't going to happen.

    Dave

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    Member GD Yankee's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=JOAT;1048978]GDY... maybe you need to take a 2nd look. The picture of the guy is from a ballroom with tables of people in the background. He's not a kid and actually runs his own financial services company. Thus, he's actually a business executive and has quite a bit of clout if one were to do a couple minutes of search-n-read about him.

    JOAT, I'll do some more research and get back. Watch the video. That was what I was referencing.

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    Member GD Yankee's Avatar
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    Default Mods: request that this thread be moved off the Alaska Shooting forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by kickerdrb View Post
    It only takes a few nutjobs misbehaving with sporting arms and we will all be in terrorist internment camps.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/ron-p...ifying-2011-12

    Good luck fellow citizens, and Merry Christmas to all courtesy of the United States Senate.
    First, I think threads like these should be posted on a political forum (ask Mr. Strahan to create one if you like), not in the shooting forum. Let's talk about shooting here, not this stuff.

    Ok, I did all the research I'm going to do on this. I read through the applicable article of the Defense Reauthorization Act (I believe it is article 1031). It has been amended and passed from what I can see. Bottom line that I can read is it attempts to give the President power to use military resources to apprehend and battle domestic terrorism committed by non-citizens who are affiliated with Al-Queda - not, as the Seaman guy claims, to detain for life a college student protesting with the Occupy Wall Street crowd.

    The debate over the technical language of the proposed law is valid. Re-writes to tighten and clean up language always occurs. Claiming as Mr Seaman's does that the act is full of fascistic, police state language is hyperbole at best and in my view it borders on sedition. Guys like him are encouraging hysterical distrust of our government and our military. Skepticism and cynicism is one thing, claiming that our government is going to round us up and put us into military detention camps is another.

    From what I could find, Seaman runs some kind of internet business dealing in credit card deals (Credit Card Outlaw), so if you want to call him a "business executive", have at it. He also gets his blog stuff inserted into the Business Insider website, which collects articles from many sources. Watch his video at the bottom of the link kickerdrb posted. If you want to buy what he is saying nothing I can write is going to influence you. And yes, it looks to me like he is talking to a webcam in some crappy basement bedroom - notice the ironing board on the left. If he's a millionaire businessman, he's living below his means.

    If you want some real controversy, I think the 1911 is overrated.

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    Member JOAT's Avatar
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    There used to be a politics forum. It didn't work out and Mr. Strahan has banished all political discussion from this site (hence the recent setup of the offsite P&R forum linked in my sig). I expect this thread could be shut down pretty soon if it strays off the path.

    Let me be perfectly clear... I'm neither for or against this Seaman guy. I did a minute's worth of quick research on him and that's all the time I have for the guy. Don't give a rat's patootie about him or what he has to say. Not gonna watch his video either. Don't care.

    As for the Defense Reauthorization, there's been a bunch of scuttle coming out of various sources about section 1031 and how it allows American citizens to be jailed as terrorists. Fine with me. I could care less what country a terrorist is from. Shoot 'em all. But, it seems the scuttle isn't exactly true.

    If you go to the actual text of HR 1540 (I linked to it in a previous post), and scroll down to page 438 (it's a 920 page bill) and read Section 1031, you find it states the following...

    SEC. 1031. DEFINITION OF INDIVIDUAL DETAINED AT GUANTANAMO.

    In this subtitle, the term ‘‘individual detained at Guantanamo’’ means any individual who is located at United States Naval Station, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, on or after March 7, 2011, who—

    (1) is not a citizen of the United States or a member of the Armed Forces of the United States; and
    (2) is in the custody or under the effective control of the Department of Defense.

    Maybe they already changed it. If so, good. Maybe the whole thing was hype from the beginning. Don't know, but it's pretty dang clear that American citizens are specifically excluded in this part.

    And that's about all there is to say on the matter as far as I can tell.
    Winter is Coming...

    Go GeocacheAlaska!

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