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Thread: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores--

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Brinton, MI


    Sorry, late in posting, bad weather, computer lines zapped again.
    Some more experimenting with the Accutip sabots, Designed a
    two ball load using .577" cast lead balls. Bottom ball flattened a
    little in vise with the flats up and down in sabot.
    Used a fold crimp, 3.5" once fired REM case in NEF, long rifled
    barrel.....Fold crimp goes down on the top ball...Round
    balls 285gr each, going about 1900 hit within 2 inches at 30 yds.
    Those 58 cal inside Accutip sabots are really versatile.
    Tested 3 shots with 58cal Buffalo hollowpoint, hollowbase, lead,
    muzzleloading slugs, 2" at 30yds. All loads with plastic x12x
    seal and white felt cushion under sabot.
    Experimenting with an Enfield, had one set up with my 700HE 3.25,
    and just did one in my longer 700HE. Did little longer port and
    added little more weight.First picture. 2nd picture is a neat 3 barrel
    16ga, which if I had it,deepen chamber, I'd have a neat 16ga FH....Ed

    PS---We are gaining on getting the big run of brass made for our 585HE.
    He is finishing the tooling and soon be producing. We want make the run
    as big as possible so everyone is welcome to help. You in US get in on
    first order, cases are $3 each.Those in the US he'll send whole order to
    me bulk freight, a big savings, and I'll get them to the parties involved,
    no charge for helping out on first run.The $3 cost is a great bargain
    compared to other big bore cases and if you buy 150 or so you've saved
    enough, over the cost of others to buy a barrel to make 585HE gun with.
    My contact--- gunowner at
    For those in Australia,Canada,South Africa,UK, and other countries
    send pmt to Bertram and he'll send cases to you individually when done.
    Right now can't afford export costs to send cases back out of US...

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Brinton, MI


    Here is picture of the two ball sabot load, using two
    58cal balls in a 12ga Accutip style sabot.

    Hoping we will have sabot like above for reloading soon,
    in volumn so we can load and test a bunch of these 58cal
    bullets and slugs. There are soft cast, hard cast, and
    the heavier jacketed. These all work in my 585HE also.
    The 440gr hollowbase ones loose in the big box on left
    measure in at .585" and work great in my 585HE cases.

    Part of my 585HEs are smooth barrels guns
    just for testing the different style guns, and different loads.
    In the one smooth barreled one I have on BBK action, shooting
    my 585HE with 440 gr hollowbased Minie slug, we were hitting
    8 inch paper plate with them going about 2700 at 30yds.
    Hollowbased they act like shotgun slug at short ranges.
    Will be neat deal to shoot them in 12ga accutip style sabots in
    rifled 12 gauges and the smoothbore 585HEs with $30 barrels.
    Here is picture of Pedretti(Beretta style) that came as 10ga. I
    have monoblocked in 585 barrel. In picture there is 585HE case
    partly out of chamber. I have extra fairly heavy 10ga barrel
    also and changes in 2 minutes. And that monoblock break
    action locks up like a bank vault.Real strong.

    And an ultimate big bore from history.ED


  3. #43
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Brinton, MI


    We hope a company will be making our modeled 12ga sabots
    soon, this fall, to deliver to reloaders and suppliers..
    We also got first part of funds collected for the initial big run
    for our 585HE long cases being made. Sending in bunch
    this week, and need more to make run bigger For more info
    if your interested contact me.
    We, others, and 'VdoMemorie' on the Cast Bullet forums
    and Shotgun World are experimenting with 58cal Minie slugs and
    58cal round balls in 20ga wadcups, and find it is away to slug
    load your 20ga economically. You can use 20ga Commander wad and
    also shorter "sporting 20 short" wad from BPI. I cut bottom off of
    commander and use felt wads and 20ga obturator seal with .575"
    470gr minie slug and got 4" group at 30 yds, with smooth barrel.
    That is with heavy thick,smooth barrel I put in CBC below.
    Here is picture of the CBC break action that I mono-blocked in smooth
    super heavy, thick 20ga barrel..30" long, chambered for 3.5" cases.
    Works great with 3.5" plastic or brass cases.

    Here is picture of the 1887 WIn with my 585HE in it. I put in a
    heavy barrel and different kind of extractor Barrel is 28"..
    I like putting my 585HE in all the old style of guns, just
    to show all the uses the case has.

    I found supply of super long bmg cases to make my 700HE Long cases.
    It is 4.27" long and holds over 370 gr ball powder, 1000gr at 3400 plus.
    I have it in my Vulcan BMG bolt action and I just got one done in
    a MRC PH bolt gun, in picture below...Ed


  4. #44
    Member GrassLakeRon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Grass Lake Michigan

    Default 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores--

    You should try the tungsten slugs with the 700. I would love to see if an engine block would stop it I would guess it would do better then 2 inch plate steel.
    "Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science"

    Edwin Hubble

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Brinton, MI


    Ron I'll have get a sabot rigged up for fit in 700 to use the 58
    cal tunsten slug in. Sabots fits 12ga now.

    I found pics of a factory 12ga over under that
    has bottom barrel rifled, top one smooth with
    chokes. Will have pics few days. Also pics of
    585HE case samples from the first run
    of my 585HE cases, Bertram is doing.ED

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Brinton, MI


    Here is breach picture of that 12ga O/U made by Armi-Lumar
    It has the bottom barrel rifled right from factory, top barrel smooth,
    with interchangeble chokes. A real neat gun.

    Good news, I got few samples of first production run of my 585HE
    cases from Bertram, to test for strength and measure for uniformity.
    They all measure perfect and especially the belt length headspace.
    He made part of the run, a 1000, without headstamp..And over 3000
    with headstamp. Cases only 3 bucks each if you get in on the first
    shipment right away..Ship by mail to US cost too much, $1.50 each,
    so we will have a bulk freight shipment to US as big as possible.
    Folks in other countries order direct from Bertram.
    This case can be used in different style guns.,
    Bolt, Falling blocks, Break actions, Etc. I have reamers, and dies.
    Manson Reamer can make more reamers,CH4D has dies also.
    Earlier in thread I've shown various 585HE guns we have set up. Here
    is a break action, with 585 barrel monoblocked in, one my favorites,
    we just got done.

    I tested 585HE moderate loads(650gr @ 2400) in NEF, CBC, Pedretti,
    etc, break actions and didn't need sizing on the bottom 2/3. Real
    tough built cases. Cases, are real uniform. For high test loads we
    fired couple with 650gr at 3000 in Enfield bolt action, and it extracted
    ok, and resized ok back to specs. About a 62k psi load. Pockets tight.
    First picture, shown is some he made without headstamp that I stamped,
    and some with stamp and ones I made on the right..
    Also they can be used for wildcats, shorter cases, etc, and folks can stamp
    what they want. 2nd picture you see them in a regular # 31 shellholder,
    they don't need a special holder.
    In 3rd picture of sectioned cases, you can see how strong the cases are
    in base and corners, strong like the ones I made, on the left in picture,
    which were real strong cases, that worked great with max loads..
    The new 585 from Bertram on the right in picture.Nice strong base/corners.
    He supplies same base cases for 408 Cheytac, used with hot sniper loads
    that run real high average pressures..He will be manufacturing
    these Cheytac runs regular, so we can get ours made anytime
    we get money built up for an order..Ed

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Brinton, MI


    Here is overall view of the Armi-Lumar O/U 12ga that has
    one barrel rifled. Second is another view of the breach.
    Nice looking gun.

    Here is picture of the 58cal Minie bullets in 20ga BPI Commander
    shotcup wads, and some 50cal bullets in 20ga BPI Sport shotcups.
    Sport wads were too small inside and to tapered inside for 58 cal.
    Other two are 458 bullets in a non-discarding base that had SPW,
    Buckhamer type slugs in them, that someone took apart, that I got.
    And one 100yd group shot by Ajay on ShotgunWorld with Sav 220
    20ga, with 20ga Commander wad and 58cal cast Minie bullets
    measured about 2 inches. Four shots in two inches.Ed

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Brinton, MI


    First is picture of the 8ga Falling Block with texturized paint finish
    on the stock. It enhances the grip quite a bit on hard recoil guns.

    Second is the Greener that I have my 585 HE in.Also have
    12ga barrel for it..

    Third is Magtech singleshot action that I'm experimenting
    with putting on a thumbhole stock.

    Fourth are the long bmg bulleted blank cases that I found, to use to
    make my 700HE Long case, 4.27" long. I have few extra sets of
    five in links like shown, extra to sell 5 at a time in links,
    if some need them for their collections, etc... Ed

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Brinton, MI


    In our research to find economical and easy to use setups to load various slug/sabot combos in 12, 20 and other gauges, you'veseen what we are doing with 58cal slugs in 12ga accutip type sabot weare getting built, and 58cal slugs in 20ga BPI Commander shotwad.You've seen pics of group shot by Ajay 58cal in 20ga Commander wad.And Greg Sappington made 16ga HP slug that fit 12ga BPI CSD wad.CSD wads are little thicker. In that vein we found another 20 ga combo that uses the BPI 20ga CSD wads and larger diameter of the 54cal muzzleloading slugs. Wad is thick and short so we can get the volumne of our slow powder we want in the loads for higher speeds.And base of CSD 20ga wad is thicker and stronger than most wads.. It doesn't have built on cushion, doesn't need cushion, which is notneeded for slow powder loads. Has a good built on powder seal.It is long so it can be cut to fit any 54cal slug length. Best 54cal slugs to use are .543" and up.There is .548" Sharps style 2nd in picture from Dixie Gunworks.There is54cal Great Plains in picture on left, Far right in picture is 550 Magnumjacketed bullets in 20ga CSD. Great for hogs, bear. There are a varietyof 54cal slugs you can cast or buy. Not big number like 58cal, but enoughto find good simple combo. Shot 3" group with 54cal Great Plains inCSD at 30 yds, smooth bore. 380gr going over 2000 fps.Second picture shows they even work and fit good in 20ga RMC brass.Fits in a brass case real tight with .548" Sharps style slug in picture..Third picture shows how we mono-block 585HE barrels into strongsingleshot break actions. Done it in NEFs, CBCs, Pedretti, Beretta, and the Magtech 199 shown above.Fourth picture is the O/U Tristar with 585HE on top and 3.5" 12ga bottom.We sleeved the top barrel with .585" ID sleeve. We will use it withthe 58cal .585" Minie hollowbase slugs. Bottom just for shot loadswith a interchangeable chokes. Ed

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Brinton, MI


    Little work on non-discarding 12ga sabots,You can get SPW
    wads without slugs in them and we set up one for a light load.
    We put a 20ga Lyman in some and they stay together ok. Just
    shorten the bottom skirt of Lyman and bevel the bottom corner.
    Total weight sabot and all is 360gr,,Shown In the picture..
    We also shrunk the skirt of the 12ga Lyman cast slug and put it
    in 12ga SPW wads and total about 550gr. If you have Lyman
    12ga mold, can use it as pattern to make a slug to go into a
    SPW wad. Leave the top part same as original Lyman and make
    bottom so it fits in the SPW with real tight fit.

    I like to use P14/M17 Enfields for our testing. Great for my 585HE
    case and in picture it shows how we change the sear spring to one
    on the back of the sear. So we can open up the bottom to feed
    the long cases from singlestack magazine box by removing the
    unneeded front of the sear and metal above it in the bottom, giving
    room to the back, for cases that are 3.9" plus overall loaded length.

    Couple guys who are setting up 585HEs in singleshots are going
    to shoot 58cal Minies and other bullets and use black powder
    and/or substitutes. So I tested some with Pyrodex pellets,
    Used 54cal, 60gr equivalent and they stack in the case ok,
    and just beveled corner of bottom one so it set tight to the base.
    As the case has good inside radius. Used 3 pellets with 24ga
    card over pellets, 3/8" felt wad and another card with 440gr Minie.
    There is a certain nostalgia about all that sulfur smell.If you can
    stand the cleaning. Slug going 2100.. 4 pellets about 2400.
    Here is picture of another long bullet in sabot/wad , in 12ga that
    was sent to me. Ajay on Shotgun World put these together.

    Did some testing, 12ga plastic & brass with new super slow RE-33 powder.
    It fires off ok in 12ga with 700gr and heavier slugs, with shotgun primers
    like RE-17 which is much slower than shotgun powders. .
    It is made the same way as RE-17 as far as how the rate of burn
    deterrent is put into the powder. Which is why it ignites in large diameter
    cases like 12ga and BMG with shotgun primers. Really be great for super
    heavy 1100 to 1500 grain slugs to get good speed and keep case damaging
    peak pressures down. Example in 3.5" Fiocchi 12ga plastic case, 690gr slug in
    BPI Helix Driver Wad with 180 gr RE-33 the basecup only expanded .002".
    And they are thinner basecup than some..Ed

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Brinton, MI


    Last picture above shows what can be with sabots. It was thought to
    be 20ga size when we got picture, but it is a smaller
    45cal caliber sabot with 30cal streamlined bullets in them.
    This was set up by the poster 'edge' on Castbullets forum.
    More info on the SPW sabots with 520 gr Lyman reworked and locked into
    them. With 3.5" brass RMC in the NEF long barrel gun, going about 2500
    they smash though 6" timber with Lyman tearing wood up. Also got the same
    combo 2200 in 3.5" plastic. Lyman in sabot on the left in picture on
    right is factory SPW.

    Another setup using the largest diameter 58 Minie I have is this .590" in this
    12ga real thick muzzleloading wadcup for steel shot. I chamferred the bottom of
    Minie slug and wedged it in the cup. The cup comes real long and we cut it off.
    That leaves perfect edge to roll crimp against. Dab of epoxy holds the Minie slug
    in, so it works like a non-discarding sabot. This wad has is own seal and fairly
    short compared to others, so it leaves room for more of our slower powders.
    Shorter slug and wad setups make loading easier.

    Here is picture of the Magtech we redid in the 585HE by mono-blocking in 585
    barrel. This is second one we've done. Tried out a ladder peep sight on the
    back. Makes a neat gun.That underlever is a great touch.Ed

    As part of the 585 test guns have smooth barrels, they are like a hopped up
    24ga. We got couple bags of 24ga cards and felt wads. Easy way to use
    reduced loads as the wads are perfect in 585 case. For comparison top load
    say with RE17 and 650gr bullet is 170gr, but you can put in 100gr and card
    and couple wads and have real easy load. And you don't have to worry about
    airspace. Great for reduced loads with Minie slugs. In the same vein you
    can put in a card over the powder and about 3/4 oz of shot and have a real
    speedy 24ga shot load equivalent. Put card over the shot and glue it in.Ed

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Brinton, MI


    First picture is of a nice finished 87 Winchester Will Sanders got set upand he is using short brass cases.Beautiful scroll work on the stock.Next is takeoff of a slug idea from Longbow on Cast Boolits, 12ga leadroundball with section copper tube, wads compressed inside, BPGS seal on bottom, screwed together. I have many boxes of wads. Now he did his withscrew into ball, put tube on with screw centered inside tube and filled tube with hot glue. It stays together. Both are nose heavy for smooth bore work.Next is side sectioned view, one of our 585HE cases, showing how 3/4ounce of shot fits in.. 585 is same bore as 24ga. Cards shown are 24ga.Just glue top card in. Some of our 585s are smoothbore and the HB Minieslugs work at short range and the shot will do at short range also goingabout 2000 fps. Could use 24ga shotcup.Next, Mossy 390 bolt action, with heavy 585 barrel. Makes a nice big bore gun,and handles nice with texturized stock finish. About same strength asthe heavy break actions I have 585HE in.Ed

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Brinton, MI


    Here is picture of the 12ga short brass RMC cases being used in
    the 1887 WIN shown above. They are 2 5/8" long cases and we
    get 600gr over 1900. He had work done on action to get it to feed
    these and 3" roll crimped plastic. Brass loaded about same length
    as 3' plastic crimped little long.

    Next pic are Lyman slugs cast for thin 12ga wad, used in thickwall
    10ga VP100 wads. These Lymans I got are on large size and fit
    VP100 fairly well. Makes easy, lighter, superfast load in 10ga.

    Next; further idea with Longbow's tube/roundball slug shown above.
    Use tube hot glued to ball with screw in the back and use it in
    a 10ga VP100 wadcup. These type slugs little more accurate used
    in wads as opposed to fullbore.

    Next shows picture of a long 585 bullets, about 1600gr in our 585HE
    cases. Got the idea from Bret In Minn that could setup 585HE
    guns with super long throat and load down to subsonic speeds to
    make the 585HE Whisper.....And regular bullet loads would still fire
    in the same guns......And at subsonic 1050fps it would have about
    4000 ft lbs, about twice what the peashooter whisper cases have.
    And my case could get a 2400 gr long bullet to same subsonic speed
    for 6000 ft lbs. And one that long would have proportions like the
    newer tank cannon, smooth barrel saboted darts, that it could be
    possibly be done, using long 2400gr in smooth barrel.
    Neat ideas from guys interested in whisper type loads.

    Last is picture of FBW in our 585HE with handgrip stock and light
    barrel for lightweight carrying. Grip is weighted, gun is 6lbs.
    Barrel is 28". I'm not a fan of light barrels. 650gr at 2500 is max of
    what I can hold onto shooting from the hip Moderate load
    .Little info about my 585 loads, like in the break actions and the
    Mossy in post above. I load about 85% max velocities, but to get
    85% we only need 2/3 the peak pressure, like 40,000 psi
    instead of 65,000...Ed


  14. #54
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Brinton, MI


    We have a winner it seems. The 12ga sabots using 58cal slugs.

    The sample 12ga sabots got here earlier this week. And we got a bunch
    of testing already for opening and sealing, and some accuracy testing .440gr
    Minie bullet, measuring .575"; with OD of sabot with slug in it of .737" It is
    perfect. Going moderate 1800. Petals opened perfect and evenly and they all
    stayed on perfect. No petals twisted or torn. Tested in 3" case with slower
    powder loads. 80gr of 4759 and 50gr Alliant Steel. Fiocchi case.
    Savage 210 rifled barrel, 1 to 35 twist. Cases with slower powders expanded
    only a little, and those cases are soft ones.
    We have big bunch of the sabots here now.

    All petals were opened at about 30 deg to the base when picked up.
    With ither powder the bases have no damage, or burn throughs or melting.
    Took rifling perfect, so skidding on the rifling. Most of the rifling grip is on the
    bottom half of sabot, which is why these and Accutips are best as the bottom
    is full size instead of dropping back in size, compared to the top, like many
    other sabots. Rifling in the barrel still clean..

    The Minies are hollow based and the slug edges did not cut into the inside of the
    sabot bases,just a slight impression. We have got good base thickness.
    Good Accuracy - In the cold and very windy day, hit milk jugs at 30 yds.
    Here is picture inside sabot showing just a slight indent. No need of cards under
    slugs, and if you did, the the slugs would set up in sabot and not have the
    curve of the slug behind the inside circular rib for best fit...
    You got to use right powders. With right slower powders( not fast shotgun),
    that start easier and used in larger amounts, you won't tear up the sabots.
    It is false economy to use all fast shotgun powders,trying to get twice as many
    shots per pound... and tear up sabots, expand cases too much, get poor groups,
    miss that deer or whatever. For most of you in 3" cases Alliant Steel is best.
    Get with me for sabots -- gunowner at Ph- 1-989-644-5228
    THE undersize blue ones sold elsewhere for 34 bucks a hundred plus postage.
    Ours are 33 bucks per 100 postage included, or $20 for 50 postage included,
    with a bonus WE WILL send along 10 slugs with 100 order, 5 with 50 order.
    to show you what to get and to test with. Slugs can be 440gr or 500gr..Ed


  15. #55
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Brinton, MI


    Here is picture of a bunch of the sabots with different slugs and bullets.
    Back Row- Two roundball load, balls 285gr each-- pointed long 700 gr -- a blunt
    solid 700gr-- tungsten slug 1000gr --- jacketed bullet -- 600gr.
    2nd row-611 Lyman 530gr Minie- 500gr flat base- Lee 500gr hard--Lee 500gr soft
    1st Row- Lyman 440gr old style minie-- Lyman 510 gr new style-- 440gr from Dixie
    Gunworks-- 400gr Lee target style. I like 440gr old style and 440 gr Dixie. For sale
    on Gunbroker is all sizes and weights.. Or cast your own. Lots of moulds around.
    Lee moulds only 20 bucks. Best diameters to use are .574 " to .577" Minies.
    If you have ones bigger and they are not hardened you can roll them betweem two
    hard surfaces and they will get little smaller. I have some that are .585" 440gr
    and work in my 585HE and they can be rolled smaller.

    Here are sabots with variety of seals/wads, and the shortest one in picture with
    white felt wad just fits in 3" case with 80gr 4759, and still leaves room to roll crimp.
    I compress it in hard. Now only faster powder than 4759 I'd use is Alliant Steel in
    smaller amounts, 50gr Steel, in 3", and thicker wads and cushions like shown.
    To roll crimp over the top edge of sabot we had .220" of case before crimping.
    You only have to crimp top edge of sabot real good.

    After crimping the slugs are tight and don't move around. The circular rib inside the
    sabot holds slugs tight back into the base. Speeds over 2000 fps
    will be gotten using 3.5" plastic cases, with our slower powder loads. .
    More testing for accuracy yesterday, a warmer, calmer day, with steel sights.
    Hit. paper plate at 50 yds.
    As said above, best to use right powders. Right slower powders( not fast shotgun),
    that get to peak pressure slower, thus can use larger amounts, can get to higher
    velocities, and you won't tear up the sabots and won't expand cases as much.
    For most of you in 2.75" and 3" cases Alliant Steel is best.
    FOR 440GR SLUGS IN SABOT---For 2.75" start at 40gr and go up to about 50.
    For 3" start at 45gr go up to about 55. I like 3.5" best as you can load much easier
    for speed, still have more cushion wads. Start with 50gr Steel, go up to about 62.
    Case brands act different, but using the slower powders minimizes the differences
    and keeps us away from surprizing pressure problems.
    In 3" plastic,most 4759 I can get in and still have 1/4"cushion is 80gr.... In the 3.5"
    I can get in 105 gr with this sabot and get over 2000 fps, In these loads if using
    480-500gr cut back 3 gr. These 58cal slugs can be cast or they are at Dixie Gunworks
    and 4 guys on Gunbroker got them. Get ones .574" to .577"
    Interested in sabots--- gunowner at Ph- 1-989-644-5228
    THE undersize blue ones sold elsewhere for 34 bucks a hundred plus postage.
    Ours are 33 bucks per 100 postage included.
    Or $20 for 50 postage included..
    .Or 150 for $45 postage included----- ALL with a bonus
    WE WILL send along 10 slugs with 100 order, 5 with 50 order. 15 with 150 order.
    to show you what to get and to test with. Slugs can be 440gr or 500gr..
    We want you to help test and find what is best....Ed

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Brinton, MI


    Here is picture of 45-50yd target, used a scoped NEF Ultra, the sabot load of a 440gr
    58cal slug in it at 1800... Measures 2.5" on outside for 3 shots.

    Here is pic of almost 2100 of them. More coming. Time to
    get them and get loads working.

    A little levity in this process.Ed

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Brinton, MI


    Some more info about our sabots and various slug weights......
    First and most important is our sabots fitting real tight like the Accutip
    Sabots, they will not get the same speed at the same pressures as
    the undersize grey and blue ones, But they do leave the barrel
    headed straighter and without damage, even with hollowbase 58cal
    slugs in them as the pics above show. No cards under slugs in sabots.,
    But with good powder seals, using Alliant Steel, and good 1/4" minimum
    cushion wads.
    The 440gr Minie slug of .575" in the 3" cases is the one I used as a
    base loading, to work each way by weight to find what loads of
    Alliant Steel work and extract in my NEF. Using 3" soft base cases.
    Here is pic of before/after of Fiocchi cases, on right unfired and left
    fired, 55gr Steel with 440 gr slug.

    For 440gr max of 55gr Steel
    For 400gr max of 57gr Steel
    For 360gr max of 59gr Steel
    For 490gr max of 52gr Steel.
    For 510gr max of 49gr Steel
    For 540gr max of 47gr Steel.
    I tested all these weights for extraction. It is real nice to reach into a
    bucket, grap a sabot that fits right, and go to loading and shooting.
    Many of you need to get in on the fun.
    Here is picture of Fiocchi with sabot, roll crimped. The top of sabot is
    perfect for roll crimping...It is setting under crimp tool in drill press.

    Earler I showed the 585HE Falling block with pistol grip and the light
    barrel. Here it is with Knoxx Compstock buttstock. We added 2 extra
    springs inside for relatively hard recoiling gun, as stock originally made
    for a REM 870 Pump. Works great and looks nice; will putting one on
    the Magtech 585HE singleshot break action and got one in rifle stock
    for Ruger 77 in 585HE.

    And many guys want wildcats with shoulders, with big neck down, so
    in developing the ultimate 700 blaster, here is the 700HSM. Shown next
    to Gibbs 650gr ball powder..1000gr at 3800...How about that.
    Will be one of only 2 guns I plan on being over 30 lbs, other is 2bore..


  18. #58
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Brinton, MI


    The sabots aren't moving and I got to get funds out of
    them asap, emergency bill coming... And seeing as how
    we're low on slugs to send with the sabots, in big numbers,
    and no one has yet to buy out our stash of sabots and
    set up so they can be selling the sabots, we will try selling
    them fast in next few weeks . So to get these moving
    out fast and getting tested, and we pay our bills,we will
    be having sale on just the sabots, in larger amounts only.
    We will send one each of 440gr and 500gr slug so
    the guys can see what we have found that works.

    Because of the shipping costs and boxes that 2, 3, or 4 bags
    of sabots fit in, that has an affordable postage cost to pay,
    we have to sell these in 200, 300, and 400 size orders..
    So, 200 sabots $47 Shipping included,
    300 sabots $65 Shipping included...400 for $83 shipping incl.

    Now 200 of the other brand X of undersize ones cost $68
    plus shipping. There was dozens of guys the last few
    years all over the internet that bought undersize junk,
    that wanted good sabots and complained that the ones
    they bought elsewhere didn't work...... I haven't heard
    from most of them, So guys see if you got time, please
    help us out here..MO, Check, Paypal..Ed

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Brinton, MI


    The sabots work in brass cases .First is sabot in a Magtech brass case,
    next to 3" plastic.. In shorter brass it would hold about as much powder
    as in longer plastic if loaded like in the picture..
    Sabots are about .734-735" with slugs in them, and
    the Magtech brass with its thin sides still is slightly small OD at the
    top compared to plastic, with sabot wedged in.

    Next is sabot in RMC case, and sides are full thickness like plastic cases
    at the mouth, so don't expand case to hold sabot. We have RMC make case
    mouth ID to fit sabot. Sabot being little over fits barrels tight and rifling
    impresses into plastic well and gets best spin, and being tight it leaves barrel
    straight, with petals opening evenly. Brass case mouths are tight enough that
    we push sabot in with a press.Saves trying to crimp heavy RMC case.

    Here is picture of a barrel and barrel on a gun from 20 gauge singlshots that
    will have the heavy 20ga rifled barrel in picture, mono-blocked into them.

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Brinton, MI


    What causes sabot problems/inaccuracy. Some pictures will help.
    First 2 shows a skinny post that pushes on a cushion or sabot
    bottom and it can bend or deflect which if that way when exiting
    barrel can start sabot or slug crooked.

    And more important item that can cause lack of accuracy is if
    base of discarding sabot tapers or steps down so that it isn't real
    tight as it leaves bore, which can allow it to be cocked.
    On the left is our sabot which has base right and other brand
    which tapers a bit. Easy to see.

    Next is a ball and slug load in 2 of our sabots. A 285gr .575" ball
    flattened, put in the bottom and 400gr Minie above, two different
    styles of Minies.

    Here is couple 16ga discarding sabots I made from the undersize
    12ga grey ones. Didn't have to take off much. Much better use
    for them. I made them, after Paul in Alaska asked about
    where to find 16ga ones, to see what they looked like.
    They still use 50cal slug.. Ed


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