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Thread: 1911 45acp

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    Member alaskabliss's Avatar
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    Default 1911 45acp

    If one was wanting to buy a 1911 and had about $1000 to spend what one would you guys want. I ask it this way because asking what 1911 to buy will produce les baur and wilson combat and etc. and that is out of my price range right now. Really thinking towards a Kimber but I have zero experiance with any 1911's. I have a HK usp that I love and a Mark II. I want a something that can be concealed carry with out being uncomftorable or hard to hide.

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    I have a Kimber Gold Cup and a Dan Wesson cz-7. I was just given a chance to shoot the new Sig 1911. For the money it is way ahead of the others. This is from the announcement...

    The legendary 1911 design has been brought into the 21st century with the refinement today’s
    shooters demand. The SIG SAUER® 1911 proves that close tolerances equal complete reliability
    and need not be incompatible in an off-the-shelf pistol. SIG SAUER has introduced clean, distinct
    lines that American shooters have embraced, while retaining the crisp trigger pull, classic
    ergonomics, and exceptional accuracy they expect.

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    Colt Gold Cup.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

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  4. #4

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    choice.jpg
    Both my 1911 45's are just under $1000.00 new and both are great for concealed carry. After market bells and whistles put them both just around/over that price The Para Warthawg has Hogue grips and XS-Big Dot night sights, and the Kimber Pro Carry II has Crimson Trace grips.

    Deciding which one to carry can be a bit of a problem.....

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    Member alaskabliss's Avatar
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    NormK, Have you had any reliablity issues with your Kimber? The Pro Crimpson Carry II is what I am leaning towards unless there is something quit abit better for the same price.

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    If you have the time, take a look at (google) 1911 forum. It is a great source for 1911 info in general and has individual forums for all the major brands of. I don't think you will go wrong with any of the major makers, Colt, Kimber, Springfield, S&W, Sig, and more. They should all have several options in your price range. FWIW, I have read very good things about the Springfield Range Officer, but have yet to own a Springfield or shoot one. I really like my Kimber Pro Carry CDP II and S&W 1911 PD with rail. Both have been 100% reliable out of the box. My prize 1911 is a Sig 1911 Blackwater edition, 100% reliable, accurate, and eats anything I feed it. I have read many guys say that for the money, Sig makes one of the best 1911 values on the market today if you are not turned off by their external extractor. They are usually reported as accurate, and reliable and supposedly have fewer MIM parts than similarly priced 1911's, especially the earlier production guns. S&W has also went the external extractor route and have designed it right, hearing good things about the new E-Series. There are some 1911 values out there as well for under a grand that I have read are strong competitors. Two that come to mind are the Dessert Eagle which usually can be found for about $700 (some guys have posted they shoot and function as good as their $1400 Kimbers) and the new Ruger SR1911, neither of which I have personally shot or handled. The Rugers are hard to find and you usually have to get your name on the waiting list from what I hear.

    For the best info you will find on anything 1911, you should seriously check out the before mentioned forum, though even there you will find much Kimber vs Springfield vs Colt vs....... First thing I would do is go to a decent gun shop that stocks different 1911's and handle a few. Need to decide if you want a full sized government, commander sized, or officers/compact size. For true concealed carry, commander size I think is about perfect and gives up little in terms of accuracy over a full sized government model and you loose no reliability that you may encounter with the smaller versions (harder to pin down 100% reliablity in compact versions due to excellerated slide velocity and locking/unlocking of barrel, heavier springs, ect...) Another decision is do you want light weight aluminum or scandium frame, stainless, or carbon steel as you will likely find all options in your price range. Just in the last few years, you now have the option of tactical rail on most makers as well (which IMHO, makes holster availability more scarce as the holster industry does not offer near as many options for railed 1911's vs non-railed). Other options to consider?? do you need an ambi thumb safety??, can be an fairly easy add on if needed, checkered front strap?? usually jumps the price point up somewhat, but difficult/expensive to have done later as it requires re finish of the firearm most times so get it if you can't live without it. Serrated front slide or not?? So many options out there. Calibers 9mm, 38 super, 40S&W, 45acp and more specialty! The one great thing about all quality 1911's is that they can be smithed and improved to the point of a masterpiece depending on how much a guy wants to spend!


    Good luck and hope you find the perfect one that suit your needs. Warning, they can be very addictive!

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    Member alaskabliss's Avatar
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    Hunter, thank for the info! I will check the forum out today. You definatly gave me more to think about since not ever owning a 1911 I didn't know I needed to think about some of those things. I shot a colt this summer and that is what gave me the urge to get my own, but shooting someones and playing with your own is very different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskabliss View Post
    NormK, Have you had any reliablity issues with your Kimber? The Pro Crimpson Carry II is what I am leaning towards unless there is something quit abit better for the same price.
    My Pro Carry II has been 100% reliable, it eats any type of ammo I feed it. It's accuracy is impressive and it has the best trigger of anything I have ever shot.

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    alaskabliss, no problem at all. I am by no means a 1911 expert, but I love the weapon and have made it my preferred ccw gun. Just enjoy talking anything 1911 and learning more. There are so many guys over on the 1911 forum who are bonified experts to include many custom 1911 smiths that share their knowledge and opinions with the less informed.

    I think in most cases with 1911's, you get what you pay for. That said, you can also drop 2000-4000$ on the top of the line makes and get a really fine weapon that will probably hold its value, but in reality a good 800-1200$ well made 1911 will get the same job done for you. I'm thinking for most average guys, Kimber, Colt, Springfield, Sig Sauer, or S&W will have a model from the basic entry level to the nicer top line models that will serve you well.

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    Dad has a kimber Custom II, can hit a gallon ice cream lid at 40 yards every shot, if you aim good. never had a feeding problem, always worked flawlessly, always kept it relatively clean though, most rounds we ever put through it in a day was 75-100 I think never really gave it a chance to cool, except when we loaded the magazines, (we typically fill up both mags, then shoot one, inspect the target, shoot the other one, inspect target, load up, shoot again. if we are going for being better shots we may shoot 3 rounds, change positions, 3 more, change positions, or we have a course where we only get to shoot 2 rounds at each target running to the next 10 yards away. so on and so forth.
    Eccleasties 8:11 Because the sentence against an evil deed is not executed quickly, There for the hearts of the sons of men among them are given fully to do evil.

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    Alaskabliss:

    I have owned quite a number of 1911's and still have not dropped the money on a Wilson (which I do want), so I understand the quandry. I have had 4 Kimber's and have been very happy with them (other than the plastic strap). My carry 1911's are Kimber and a customized Colt.

    There are a good number of high quality .45's out right now and if I were to look for another one I would give a close look at the Sig as Windypoint mentioned- they have had great reviews. As Hunterkjl states there are some great guns that don't cost too much available- just go check them out and see what feels right to you.

    Most people have brand bias but I think it would be hard to go wrong with most of the legit brands right now. 1911's have come a long way and you don't have to spend an arm and a leg to fix one up after buying it anymore. Rack the slide and have some fun!
    BEE

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    I have carried one of these for over 15 years now, and love it.

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    $1000 or less in order of quality: Colt, SIG, Ruger/S&W, Springfield. I wouldnt own anyhting other than those

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    I have had a Springfield Arms 1911 for about 11 years. Super accurate, reliable. It is my carry gun when I go to LosAnchorage along with seven clips. On occassion I take it to the black bear stand too.

    I love the safety features of the 1911 more than anything.

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    I thank all the responces to my question but I have another question that may sound stupid. Being that I have never owned a 1911 and only shot one, what makes one better than the other besides looks? What are you guys looking for when your at the store and fondeling these jewels? I understand the basics of the slide moving freely but I keep hearing about ejectors, external or internal, something about one piece or two piece guide rods and so on. Please help make sense of all this confusing lingo. I feel that it's better to go into a store with some knowledge instead of going for the pretty one!

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    There are a lot of pieces that comprise a 1911 style pistol. The better ones have a fit that feels jewel like in tolerance and smoothness. All this translates to a better accuracy and and reliability. When you feel a Wilson or Ed Brown you immediately know that a great deal of time and effort was put into matching the parts. When you have a chance to try them all side by side you will feel the better actions. Good luck in your search.

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    In my opinion...
    The 1911 was not designed to be made on an assembly line. Picture gun smith hand fitting parts for hours or days. That said some manufactures do a better job than others on their mass produced 1911. Quality of parts, fit, finish, accuracy, warranty, and reliability can very greatly in my opinion. Of all the 1911s that people recommend i have only owned a Colt Gold Cup,Springfield, Para Ordinance, STI, and Wilson. I have never owned a Kimber but there poor warranty has turned me off and i see them fail more than others in competition. I currently only own Wilsons and STIs. In your price range the STI Trojan would be my recommendation. STI is very popular with competitive shooters as they have an great warranty, made in America, acculturate and reliable, and can commonly keep shooting up with the thousands of rounds a year we put through them. There are probably other great guns in this price range I just can speak for them personalty.

    Gabe

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskabliss View Post
    I thank all the responces to my question but I have another question that may sound stupid. Being that I have never owned a 1911 and only shot one, what makes one better than the other besides looks? What are you guys looking for when your at the store and fondeling these jewels? I understand the basics of the slide moving freely but I keep hearing about ejectors, external or internal, something about one piece or two piece guide rods and so on. Please help make sense of all this confusing lingo. I feel that it's better to go into a store with some knowledge instead of going for the pretty one!
    I'm a form follows function guy. For me it's about 12 rounds in the magazine; relatively short length of pull (I don't have really large hands); moderate price; 100 percent reliability; and less felt recoil than with other 1911 makes. Oh, and accuracy; without any expensive customizations or modifications my gun puts bullets where I point it, far beyond typical self defense / human target range. What more could I ask for?
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
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    I have two Kimber's, a Stainless Ultra Carry 45 and a Stainless Target II 45. Both are very accurate and are completely reliable. For $1000 I don't think you can beat a Kimber!!

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    alaskabliss, all good replies from previous posters I think. What makes one 1911 better than another is somewhat subjective IMO. It all depends on what you want the weapon for. For instance, guys will say get a Colt Government Gold Cup. While this is a fine 1911, its intended purpose I believe is target work, bullseye shooting, ect.. Can it be carried as a CCW piece? Sure, but it will be big heavy, sharp edges from adjustable rear sight, ect... Best choice for a all around 1911 in my opinion would start with a commander size, same size grip frame as a government model, 4 1/4" barrel as opposed to 5" for government model. For a CCW gun, you don't need an adjustable rear sight but a more smooth blended sight for snag free draw. Aluminum framed guns will recoil slightly more than steel framed, but are lighter to carry (your choice again)

    While Wilson, Eb Brown, Les Bauer, Nighthawk, Colt Combat Elite, and many other higher end 1911 makers are very fine weapons, I dont think the average guy just getting into one needs to go that far in to get started. For most guys, if they like the 1911 platform after their first one, will usually end up with a second, third, fourth, ect... If he does not catch the bug, he will not be out 3000 big ones and can move on to something else.

    What I would look for if I were shopping for a 1911?
    1. overall impression of the weapon. This would include fit and finish of slide to frame fit, you want as little vertical and horizontal movement as possible and yet it should feel like the slide is gliding on glass when you pull it to the rear, no binding or rough spots and not too tight as to induce reliability issues. Look at how well the grip safety if blended to the frame in the back, no large gaps or uneven (big gap on one side and tight on the other) I also look at how the slide is blended to the frame in the back, I like it to be smooth and flush, not a 1/16" area of slide hanging over the frame. I also look at the finish and type of finish, will if hold up to holster wear, ect... Check the barrel to frame slide breach face fit (it should lock up tight, not have big gaps) also look at weather the ejection port on the slide has been relieved for reliability (basic Milspec models usually do not)

    2. I like a checkered front strap so that eliminates alot of models for me (costs more money to machine or hand cut checkering than to leave front of frame smooth) I would also ask to dry fire the weapon after ensuring it is unloaded. Contrary to what some will say, you will not hurt a 1911 by dry firing unless you got over zealous and did it a 1000 times per day for years! You know what a good trigger should feel like, smooth, little orno creep, a decent trigger pull on a carry 1911 should be ideally around 4 1/2 lbs or so. If the internalls like sear, disconnector, and hammer are made from quality tool steel, a trigger will inprove some and smooth out/lighten slightly after you get some rounds through it.

    any other things I guess that I'm not thinking of or don't know. Basically, to mass produce a 1911, there has to be short cuts taken to keep price down. Those short cuts will involve less hand fitting, MIM parts where applicable instead of machined tool steal parts. This is all well and good as there are alot of good 1911's that use MIM parts that hold up well. Not to dissagree with anyone, but I think Kimber gets a bad rap sometimes as being breakage prone and unreliable. My limited experience with Kimber, only one has been very positive. It is a carry model though that I have had for about 3 years and have only put 1000-1200 rounds through it. For competition, I am noe expert so cannot say how they would hold up. Remember, you get what you pay for, but, there is a point where you will be paying alot more for things you may not realize you need right now. Also failed to mention that you here alot of Kimber bashing, but they crank out many 1911's, possibly more than any other manufacturer so there are more out there to break. External vs internal extractor does not matter to me. Sig Sauer, S&W, and Browning High Power have been using them for years with no problems. For purist sake, I do like internal extractors though. I think Sig Sauer makes one of the best bargain 1911's out there right now for the money. Used to be Dan Wesson as they used all quality parts, but their name has cought on and price has shot up. Never owned one yet, but Colt are also fine 1911's. I don't like the duckbill grip safety though and I also am spoiled for a checkered front strap which you wont get from them for 1000$.

    If you are local Los Anchorage area and are not in a hurry, we could meet out at Birchwood sometime after the holidays and you can shoot each of my 1911's and see what you like and dont like about each.

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