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Thread: Adak Update

  1. #1
    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Default Adak Update

    Just returned from another visit to the beautiful isle of Adak, and thought I'd post an update on the caribou situation.

    ITEM ONE
    "A certain guide" seems to still be in the cross hairs of the local population, and for good reason. He hauled a bunch of hunters out last summer and they killed a passel of potentially large caribou which were worthless as trophies. The reason? They were shot when the antlers were still rubber; not developed yet. Probably good as far as meat goes, but no trophies. I would imagine the hunters were pretty disappointed, to say the least. Per forum rules, I will not post the name of the guide, but if you PM me you might pry out a detail or two. Most folks in the know about Adak already know who he is.

    ITEM TWO
    Partially as a result of last season's antics (mentioned above), some local residents of Adak made it out to the Board of Game meetings and testified in hopes of cutting the season back for bulls. They succeeded, and we now have a state regulation limiting the take of bull caribou on Adak to two from August 10-December 31. Toldja! When people do bad things, we end up with more regulations! When will we learn?

    ITEM THREE
    The agony continues... As I was leaving on Sunday's flight, I saw a quartet of camo-clad caribou hunters getting off the plane, collecting their rifles at baggage claim and heading off their merry way. Now folks, I know that people who live in the Bush will shoot caribou at most any time of year for meat, but honestly, I thought most of us were done with that. This time of year when you shoot a cow, it's a three-for-one deal if she's carrying twin calves! If we want this herd to grow to produce more trophy bulls, then what the heck are we doing shooting pregnant cows, boys? Do we need the state of Alaska to refine our behavior with yet another regulation? Come ON! I saw some of the locals (who testified at the BOG meetings) just looking at these guys and shaking their heads in disbelief... Yes, the locals will be courteous, hospitable and friendly, but I don't think any of them support a spring hunt out there. We've got to get our act together or we're gonna wear out our welcome.

    Like it or not, the local residents of Adak are the de facto caretakers of the Adak herd. We've got to work together with them for solutions to some of the problems out there. We've got to learn to limit ourselves before we end up with additional regulations out there. In the past, the feds just wanted the animals wiped off the island, but I heard rumblings that change is in the air, and they may not be too far from supporting a different approach involving managing the herd for sustained hunting. Hopefully we will do our part as sport hunters to see this through. How we conduct ourselves out there will play a huge role in where this goes, I can tell you that much.

    Finally, the island is absolutely beautiful this time of year. If you want to see the Aleutians in the spring, this is the time to go! I had a little time to walk the beach and didn't see a soul. Several flocks of emperor geese flew over me, but they came so fast I couldn't get pictures. Beautiful. Did a little fishing and caught a black rockfish from shore. The weather was a lot nicer than when I was there in October.

    -Mike
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  2. #2
    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    trasnporter...not a guide..transporter mike!! geez i don't wanna get stuck in the same catagory as the guide your talking about. seen enough of his ethics and money system he's got over by cordova...operates just like he does outa adak and the load he fed the BOG when he testified was tasty, aparently they only took 35 caribou from the island last year with 25 hunters, you should check with some of your contacts and see how accurate those numbers are.
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    Default

    Mike: thanks for the update and I could not agree more. J.

  4. #4
    Member crossfoxAK's Avatar
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    Default Adak

    [quote=Michael Strahan;82173] This time of year when you shoot a cow, it's a three-for-one deal if she's carrying twin calves! If we want this herd to grow to produce more trophy bulls, then what the heck are we doing shooting pregnant cows, boys? Do we need the state of Alaska to refine our behavior with yet another regulation? Come ON!


    This brings up a good point. I am glad that you mentioned this. We are hunters not killers, of course we all want to put meat in the freezer but like Mike says here, alot of the cows harvested this time of year are pregnant. You can't get a calf without a cow right. The only way to keep a herd strong is to have a good number of calfs born year after year. Which in turn brings more bulls. Sure the herd may be strong, but you should limit the time of year to harvest cows. I don't know

  5. #5

    Default

    Knee Jerk Reaction,
    From the locals and BOG always looks like this scenario. No one took the time to really look at the issue. Making regs that curtail the shooting of bulls and continue to allow the shooting of cows. Well lets not blame the hunters on this one, lay the blame where it is deserved. Hunters will always take advantage of what is allowed. We should never try to modify a hunters legal behavior. If anyone has a complaint, take it to the BOG. They are the ones responible for any and all missed steps. These camo-clad hunters are not the problems, nor are the guides or transporters, it is the regulations, plain and simple.

  6. #6
    Member walk-in's Avatar
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    Default don't pass the buck on this

    I couldn't disagree more. Why do we need to depend on regulations to tell us what is right and wrong? You can't have it both ways. Most of us hate more regulations, but those who are unwilling to exercise a little discipline and police themselves ruin it for the rest of us. What about ethics? I'm sure we can all think of hunting practices which are perfectly legal, but which we choose not to do because we know that they are not right according to our own ethical code. If you have the attitude that this is not the fault of the hunters, then you really can't complain when BOG starts passing new regulations. In this particular case, it might not matter to you personally. Maybe you'll never hunt Adak. But what about when it is an area that you do hunt and someone else causes BOG to enact new restrictions even though what they were doing was technically perfectly legal? How will you feel about it then?

  7. #7
    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    so if its legal its ok to do it and we shouldn't be held responsible for our actions just because someone behind a desk said it was ok to do??!....? abortion comes to mind here...
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  8. #8
    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Default Info.

    Quote Originally Posted by BRWNBR View Post
    trasnporter...not a guide..transporter mike!! ....
    he's got over by cordova...
    He was a guide and applied for a permit. It was declined so he decided to transport. He is also no longer guiding out of Cordova as his application to renew his land use permit was denied in PWS. Now he is guiding over in Icy Bay near Yukatat. A search of his name and you can find the appeal decision by the U.S.F.S.

    Vietnam - June 70 - Feb. 72
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  9. #9
    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    ya i read the reports, shame they haven't done more to curtail him and his "business". blackeye to everyone that holds a transporter or guide license.
    i feel bad for hunters that get sucked into that mess...

    i meant on adak he wasn't guiding...least that was my understanding.
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  10. #10
    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Default Not guiding

    No he was not guiding over there. He wanted to but was denied a permit.

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  11. #11
    Member dwhunter's Avatar
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    Default

    The report is something else, I do not see how anyone would go near the guy after reading it.

    Doug

  12. #12
    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    i think stuff like that is what they should be on the front page of the Dailey News rather that some guy doing a one time violation of a game law....better reading too..
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  13. #13
    Member Bullwinkle50's Avatar
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    Default Police ourselves

    I am 100% in favor of policing ourselves. Years ago as kid growing up in Kansas, we wouldn't hunt certain species in the fall and winter because we observed a down year of young during the summer. The fish and game didn't reduce the harvest amount in the regulations because they can't react as fast as we can on the ground. They make their decisions from afar, to early in the year, and to cover large areas. We need to govern ourselves based on what is best for our smaller area.

    Randy

  14. #14

    Default Adak

    Doesn't F&G want these caribou gone? Isn't the best way to do that by shooting pregnant cows? Until F&G says otherwise there should not be any flake given to anyone about hunting there at this time of the year.

    BRNBR- abortion is between the women and God. It's know one elses business. I do believe this is still a free country..

  15. #15
    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    between a woman and God, and shooting a legal pregnant caribou is between who then? last i checked it was me and God. no one elses business, what i'm saying is, that just because its legal, don't make it right/ethical/moral. each person makes their own decisions.

    FREE? lol ya as long as someone approves it.i think it should be freeER, or maybe the freeest country, but not free.
    a free country wouldn't care if i prayed in school, it wouldn't fire someone to rehire someone else cause their ethnic balance is off in the work place, you wouldn't have to have disclaimers that say we don't hire based on race, sex or religion. Free would be where your able to verbally disagree with another person without fear of a lawsuit.
    i'll go with freeEST but not free.
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  16. #16

    Default Yes

    If that is what you believe, then it is your right to not do it. Don't need to force other people into doing what you believe is right. Might turn out like Waco.

  17. #17
    Member barrowdave's Avatar
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    Default Brwnbr

    Amen Brother!

  18. #18
    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    force? i'm not forcing anyone to do anything, or belive anything. if someone belives what i belive because i said something, fine, i dont get a merit badge or anything and it don't change my life at all. thats not what i'm getting at.

    the post before said
    "We should never try to modify a hunters legal behavior. If anyone has a complaint, take it to the BOG. They are the ones responible for any and all missed steps. These camo-clad hunters are not the problems, nor are the guides or transporters, it is the regulations, plain and simple."

    I was trying to get at is just because the law says its ok to do, don't mean that's where you/we should place the blame. we all make our own decisions and we can't point to the law to tell us if its right or wrong, the law tells us whats allowed, not necessarly whats right..make sense? thats where hunters personal decisions should come into play...deciding whats "right" for each of us, not depending on laws to tell us that.

    We should always modify hunters legal behavior to make it more ethical, acceptable, palatable, welcoming, moral and try to keep hunters from being dogs in the public eye. we play a controversial sport, to some they dont' like it and the more ammo we give them to throw back at us the worse off we are. Just because the law allows us to do something, don't mean it should be done...some guys still salvage black bear meat, they don't have to but they do, because to them its "right".

    i guess my whole point could get taken way outa whack, but hopefully you see whta i'm getting at. its not a post on abortion that was just an analodgy.
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    WOw: was going to enter, now thinking this thread may get off track.
    Watching what has happened over the years with rules and regulations, many do not make sense and I have to agree its up to us to do what is right and enforce what we know is right. Has nothing to do with a any devine intervention, just pure and simple common sense. Shooting this time of year is just flat out poor thinking. The meat is aweful and I am not sure one can cover it up with spices. I have seen and been involved in the past with winter wolve kills of elk. As far as I am concerned, that meat is pure waste and I would not eat any wild meat this time of year
    because of that experience. Two deep freezes full starting the winter does me just fine with fat healthy animal meat.

    I will say that like limited entry which I think is wrong, Transportors need to be limited to a specific number of people they haul into an area. This is getting way out of hand when a bunch of people travel the Sportsman shows here and especially down south, they need to be regulated and I do not care who this angers. Unit 26 is an example of which a guide can only have a few clients and transported can fill the valley. This does not apply to the local charter outfits who make a living chartering and hauling
    whatever they can get. Betcha its the transporters and not the guides
    responsible for the caribou meat in the dumsters!

    But the new regulation of one caribou killed the hard working guides business. I know one that lost ten of twelve hunters right after the last vote.

    Neal

  20. #20

    Default I do see

    what you are gettin at. But when people talk about limiting what others can do (when there is no effect to others), it gets me steaming. I.E. your abortion analogy.
    We as hunters need to realize that we can never police ourselves. If the law says it's fine (some people do it regardless of laws) then some people are going to do it regaurdless of what others think. By changing the regs, it will limit the number of people doing it better than shaming them into it...
    To make a significant difference in ethical behavior, it has to start at an early age. I believe children should be taught gun safety and hunting ethics in school at an early age. (not all parents are capable of doing this at home) That is the only way to make a big difference. And with Carol Commeau (sp) in charge of the Anchorage School District, this is never going to happen here, and that is a crying shame.

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