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Thread: Light primer strikes on reloads?

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    Member billy jack's Avatar
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    Default Light primer strikes on reloads?

    Just loaded 40 30-06 rds and had 6 misfires, light primer strikes. Tried em again and no go. Primers feel that they are seated properly. Seated em with a Hornady press. I did use large rifle Winchester magnum primers though. This was my first time reloading, my friend who reloads alot said that it is safe to load magnum primers in standard rifle cases as in 30-06, but not a good idea to load standard for a magnum rifle case. No signs of over pressure, groups averaged 1 MOA at 100 yds. All other reloads fired fine and had a deeper primer strike. Do you think that my firing pin is short, or spring is weak? I'm using a post 64 push feed Winchester model 70. I cleaned it and disassembled the bolt, no fouling or debris blocking it's movement. I bought it new a few months ago on gunbroker. It's a new 1980's model that still had the tags on it. Primer strikes are just a tad off center, almost centered though. I've fired 140 rds of factory Remington Corelokts before reloading and never had a misfire. Any ideas, Outside temp was 7 above zero if that means anything.

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    What did you lube your firing pin with, spring, inside of the bolt? I have used the same primers on serveral different cartridges and have had no mis-fires. In k98's with original WWII springs, many different other Mausers, Winchester long action, super-short action, ZKK-602 to name a few. I use them in everything.
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    Sounds to me like it could be headspacing... that is, you may be sizing your brass down too far. When you full length size brass, the shoulder gets bumped back a certain amount. Only 2-3 thousandths is required for reliable feeding, but some dies bump the shoulder A LOT more when you set them up as per the instructions. Instead of running the sizer down all the way to the shell plate, try measuring the shoulder with a comparator, and get the die screwed in only enough to bump the shoulder back .002-.003" (a comparator is a ring of a certain diameter that clamps on to your calipers, and measures relative length to an area on the shoulder of the brass).

    As far as magnum primers... ahem. Magnum primers WILL raise pressure. Enough to cause problems? I don't know what loads you have worked up, so I can't say, but unless you're using slow ball powder, or VERY slow extruded powder, using Mag primers is a waste. Additionally, since you're probably not using any published data that calls for mag primers, you're delving into uncharted waters, which is very dangerous for a new reloader

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    Charterboat Operator kodiakcombo's Avatar
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    my guess is frozen firing pin, take it out and wipe all oil from it and the bolt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akheloce View Post
    Sounds to me like it could be headspacing... that is, you may be sizing your brass down too far. When you full length size brass, the shoulder gets bumped back a certain amount. Only 2-3 thousandths is required for reliable feeding, but some dies bump the shoulder A LOT more when you set them up as per the instructions. Instead of running the sizer down all the way to the shell plate, try measuring the shoulder with a comparator, and get the die screwed in only enough to bump the shoulder back .002-.003" (a comparator is a ring of a certain diameter that clamps on to your calipers, and measures relative length to an area on the shoulder of the brass).

    As far as magnum primers... ahem. Magnum primers WILL raise pressure. Enough to cause problems? I don't know what loads you have worked up, so I can't say, but unless you're using slow ball powder, or VERY slow extruded powder, using Mag primers is a waste. Additionally, since you're probably not using any published data that calls for mag primers, you're delving into uncharted waters, which is very dangerous for a new reloader
    +1 all very good advice. Mag primers may take a harder hit to light than standard and the entire case is moving forward enough a mag won’t light but standard will. You can get a 30-06 headspace block (everyone should have one in 06, 308, 223, or anything you load a lot of) to take out some measuring and guess work.

    Like this:
    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/270...06-springfield

    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/685...06-springfield
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    Charterboat Operator kodiakcombo's Avatar
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    one winter before I went into the USMC, I cleaned and lubed my rifle a Win Mod 70 .222, it was cold and dry, the thing didnt fire! lucky I had a cattleman .44 mag pistol, I brought some meat meat home.
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    I have heard firing pin springs can grow weak over time on the early M 70 Wins , but that is just hearsay and I do not know it to be fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kodiakcombo View Post
    my guess is frozen firing pin, take it out and wipe all oil from it and the bolt.
    Me too, when you're talking about 7 degrees. I've never shot much in the cold, but I've heard a lot of stories similar to this one.

    I suggest, clean the lube off the firing pin and spring, with something like alchohol, and very lightly
    lube with very light oil. For extreme cold, skip the lube.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kodiakcombo View Post
    one winter before I went into the USMC, I cleaned and lubed my rifle a Win Mod 70 .222, it was cold and dry, the thing didnt fire! lucky I had a cattleman .44 mag pistol, I brought some meat meat home.
    When i was at Parris Island they taught us in cold weather the firing pin gets a VERY light wipe down with CLP. I always kept to that and have never had a problem. The proper lube is vital. i would say that is where i would start looking.

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    Could well be a frozen pin but the things he is saying like:
    “This was my first time reloading”
    “All other reloads fired fine and had a deeper primer strike
    “I've fired 140 rds of factory Remington Corelokts before reloading and never had a misfire”
    “I cleaned it and disassembled the bolt, no fouling or debris blocking it's movement”
    Sure make me think hard about a headspace issue.

    7*f is cold but unless the pin (which he inspected) is covered in goo I doubt that is cold enough to be much of an issue. I’ve never had any cold hardware issues in temps without a dash in front of them myself but it could be, I been wrong one or two times ago.
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    On deep recessed bolt faces like the Rem 700s and PF 70s it is important to keep the bolt face, extractor, and ejector clean - dirt and crud in any of these areas can keep the case head from being snug against the bolt head and possibly cause misfires.

    Odd thing in this case is that some of the cases had normal primer strikes and the rounds won't fire on repeated tries. Otherwise it would make me think that there is some intermittant mechanical problem like the bolt handle not being fully down sometimes or lube issues as mentioned.

    I think the best effort at this point would to try the rounds in another rifle and see what happens. If the rounds fire normally then attention can be focused on the rifle instead of the ammo. If they don't fire then the situation could get really interesting.
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    I'm gonna replace the factory 23 lb spring with a 30lb Wolff extra power spring. Another guy on a different forum had the same rifle and caliber and experienced the same issues, changed out the spring for a 30lb Wolff and never had a misfire again.
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    Before you change the spring suggest you follow the other advice about headspacing first, might save you some money.

    Unscrew your resizing die until it is about 3/16's of an inch above the shell holder. Lube and size 3 fired casings, try to chamber them, most likely they will not chamber. Screw the die down 1/2 turn and repeat. When you finally are at the point the cases will chamber with just a hint of resistance lock in the die. Even if this does not cure the issue, it is how your die should be set up and will help with making the brass last longer.

    This is most likely the reason why factory rounds will fire, but your reloads will not. You are sizing them down to much. A heavier spring might decrease lock time, but it will also make it slightly harder to lift up the bolt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    Could well be a frozen pin but the things he is saying like:
    “This was my first time reloading”
    “All other reloads fired fine and had a deeper primer strike
    “I've fired 140 rds of factory Remington Corelokts before reloading and never had a misfire”
    “I cleaned it and disassembled the bolt, no fouling or debris blocking it's movement”
    Sure make me think hard about a headspace issue.

    7*f is cold but unless the pin (which he inspected) is covered in goo I doubt that is cold enough to be much of an issue. I’ve never had any cold hardware issues in temps without a dash in front of them myself but it could be, I been wrong one or two times ago.
    Yeah, that's true, but he didn't say he fired the 140 rounds of FLs on the same day, at the same temps.

    And, the primer strikes could be varible.

    If he's using an EARLY Post 64 PF Mdl 70, I'd also suspect the Firing Pin and Spring. Those rifles weren't made well.

    He could check the shoulder length on a sized case and a fired case with a 40 S&W, or a 10mm, and Calipers. They are the diameter that will rest bout midway on the 06 shoulder.

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    I'm leaning towards head spacing. The multiple shots fired in short order would have heated things up and shook things up enough to break loose a cold firing pin.

    Some of the reasons Andy listed in his head space conclusion are the same things that steered me that direction.

    I've seen guys screw their sizing die down to the shell plate and set their shoulder back greater than .020 without knowing they did it. That would cause a weak strike as the round would move forward to the shoulder before the firing pin would depress the primer deep enough to set it off.

    I set my dies up to achieve .002 for head spacing hunting loads. I neck size only with target loads.

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    marshall:

    Check the headspace on some FLs sometime.

    I don't have any figures, and don't have any Non-belted FLs to measure, and, chamber diminsions vary,
    but they can have a lot.

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    I find it kinda hard to believe that any standard dies could be adjusted enough to cause excessive headspace to the the pint that the rifle would not fire. The advice on adjusting the dies however is right on if he is only shooting the ammo in one gun.

    Unless the extractor is loose it should hold the case tight enough against the bolt face to fire regardless of headspace. My '03 Springfield bolt will fire primed cases even out of the gun if I hold the case straight - but not back -on the bolt face. I haven't tried it with my PF 70 yet but I suspect it will work the same way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Snowwolfe View Post
    Before you change the spring suggest you follow the other advice about headspacing first, might save you some money.

    Unscrew your resizing die until it is about 3/16's of an inch above the shell holder. Lube and size 3 fired casings, try to chamber them, most likely they will not chamber. Screw the die down 1/2 turn and repeat. When you finally are at the point the cases will chamber with just a hint of resistance lock in the die. Even if this does not cure the issue, it is how your die should be set up and will help with making the brass last longer.

    This is most likely the reason why factory rounds will fire, but your reloads will not. You are sizing them down to much. A heavier spring might decrease lock time, but it will also make it slightly harder to lift up the bolt.
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    Without head spacing tools there are a few ways to make sure you don't set the shoulder back to far.

    One easy way is as follows:

    !.) Back your sizing die off three full turns.

    2.) lube a fired case and neck then resize.

    3.) Look for the line of lube just above the shoulder on the neck. If your lube line is above the neck turn the die down in 1/4 turn increments until the line moves down to intersect the shoulder. The die will wipe the lube down with each re-size attempt. Once the line is at the intersection of the shoulder see if that brass will feed and your bolt will close, if so load it.

    There are more precise ways of getting it done but this method will work for a quick fix if head spacing is your problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    I find it kinda hard to believe that any standard dies could be adjusted enough to cause excessive headspace to the the pint that the rifle would not fire.
    Me too, as I've never had problems adjusting FL dies to touch the shell holder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshall View Post
    Without head spacing tools there are a few ways to make sure you don't set the shoulder back to far.

    One easy way is as follows:

    !.) Back your sizing die off three full turns.

    2.) lube a fired case and neck then resize.

    3.) Look for the line of lube just above the shoulder on the neck. If your lube line is above the neck turn the die down in 1/4 turn increments until the line moves down to intersect the shoulder. The die will wipe the lube down with each re-size attempt. Once the line is at the intersection of the shoulder see if that brass will feed and your bolt will close, if so load it.

    There are more precise ways of getting it done but this method will work for a quick fix if head spacing is your problem.
    Yup, that works for cases fired in your rifle.

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