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Thread: Things that make you scratch your head

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    Default Things that make you scratch your head

    So I have a friend who moved back to Idaho several months ago and he mentioned to me maybe i should try to plan a hunt to Idaho next year. To chase elk and deer, so I get on the Idaho fish and game website. Check prices for non-resident hunting license and deer and elk tags not to bad of prices I thought. I figured since I'm looking whats a non residents half to pay for a moose tag in Idaho? So i find it and talk about sticker shock wow $2101.75 and that has to be sent in at the time of application as well. So by now I'm curious whats a bighorn sheep tag cost along with a goat tag, again these tags have to be drawn as well anyhow same price as the moose tag and same stipulations the tag fee has to be sent in at the time of application. So imagine writing a check for $6300 bucks to put in for those 3 permits obviously it will be refunded to you if you don't win the permits but wow!
    I'm not one of those anti, ban out of state hunters but dang you think Alaska would be somewhat closer to other states as far non-resident fees. Montana was not to bad at $750-755 for moose, sheep and goat. Oregon was $1300 for Sheep and Goat.

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    Premium Member Wyo2AK's Avatar
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    It's definitely something to think about... I've been putting in for bighorn sheep in Wyoming since they started the preference point system. Never could draw as a resident, but it's been long enough now (and being a non-resident) that I've pretty much got a guaranteed tag for any area in the state. The downside is the (last I checked) $2200+ tag fee. Add in all the other incidentals (airfare, gear, time off work, taxidermy) and it gets spendy in a hurry. Right now I'm shooting for 2013...

    Playing the nonresident draw game gets expensive in a hurry when you start involving sheep, goats, moose, etc. Even elk tags are pretty ridiculous (coming from someone who remembers buying them over the counter for less than I now spend on a tank of gas).
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    I bailed out of the Wyming sheep point system when it went from $7.00 to $100.00. Thankfully I only applied 1 year before they changed the rules. Which brings me to my point - Nothing prevents them from changing the rules again. Maybe $100 goes to $200, maybe permit levels are lowered to where you'll never draw, who knows. You could get several years and thousands of dollars into the process, and then be SOL. I'm sitting on 13 Colorado elk points for a similar reason. I would have been money ahead by booking a guided hunt 10 years ago. It all makes you shake your head.

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    I understand the principals behind the non-res fee's and point systems - however I think it has reached a terribly high point price wise and restricted so many from enjoying what our nation has to offer. We may be non residents by state, but we are all brothers in nature as US residents! We are pricing the youth right out of the future - not to mention many are not going to even try to figure out many of the diff states complex systems.
    I had looked up some moose and sheep tags by diff states also 323 and thought holy smoly - gotta get a second mortgage just to hunt a native animal! I also paid attention to the application fee's - the moose, sheep, goats ect commanded a much higher fee than the deer and antelope - yet the booklet said these fee's were simply to cover the costs of the management to run the program - Hmm - OK then shouldn't that fee be pretty much the same no matter what the game animal - I mean its all computer driver - right?
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

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    Member slimm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 323 View Post
    So I have a friend who moved back to Idaho several months ago and he mentioned to me maybe i should try to plan a hunt to Idaho next year. To chase elk and deer, so I get on the Idaho fish and game website. Check prices for non-resident hunting license and deer and elk tags not to bad of prices I thought. I figured since I'm looking whats a non residents half to pay for a moose tag in Idaho? So i find it and talk about sticker shock wow $2101.75 and that has to be sent in at the time of application as well. So by now I'm curious whats a bighorn sheep tag cost along with a goat tag, again these tags have to be drawn as well anyhow same price as the moose tag and same stipulations the tag fee has to be sent in at the time of application. So imagine writing a check for $6300 bucks to put in for those 3 permits obviously it will be refunded to you if you don't win the permits but wow!
    I'm not one of those anti, ban out of state hunters but dang you think Alaska would be somewhat closer to other states as far non-resident fees. Montana was not to bad at $750-755 for moose, sheep and goat. Oregon was $1300 for Sheep and Goat.
    Another bummer is you have to buy a hunting licence for around $160.00 just to put in and that is non refundable, not only that Idaho makes it sound like 10% of tags are set aside for non res, but it ain't so, it is '''UP TO"' 10%,, so it goes like this, they draw 90% of the tags for res only then all the res that didn't draw go back into the hat with the non res for the other 10%, so there's a chance not one single tag will go to any non res.
    The nice thing though is you can buy plenty of OTC Elk, Deer and Archery Antelope tags if you don't draw.

    Also you can not put in for more than one oil tag, ya gotta choose Goat, Bighorn or Moose, and if you put in for any one of those you can't put in for any other LE tag.

    If you do ever decide to go I would suggest putting in for a LE tag on Elk Deer and Antelope, if you don't draw you can still buy a otc tag for all three of em, plenty of excellent hunting to be had in general units. Or just buy an Elk tag if Elk huntin' is kinda slow you can use your Elk tag for Deer, Wolf, Bear or lion.

    Come on down,,,, Idaho is a beautiful state loaded with plenty of game and not very many people and the folks that are here are plenty nice.
    Plus we love all that non res money, it sure keeps the price down for us.. I always buy the sportsmans package,, I get an Elk, Deer, Bear, Lion, Turkey tag
    my huntin' fishin' licence,,Muzzle loader permit, Archery permit salmon and steelhead permits, for $110.00,, and can hunt Antelope in Aug. Deer from Aug through Dec. Elk Sept. through mid Nov.,, plus five straight months of some of the best upland hunting in the world, not to mention the outstanding waterfowl hunting, and only have to drive a max of one our radius from my house to hunt or fish anything the state has to offer..

    What part of Idaho did your buddy move to??

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    My friend lives in Rigby good ol Mormon boy . I will do the OTC tags if I go...

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    Those of us in Ak that are 60 or older get to hunt all of Ak's critters free. When you hit 60 you get a permanent license for hunting, fishing and trapping for no cost. Also the only tag I buy is a Federal duck stamp. The lottery for special hunts is $5 per unit hunt. Most of the money I spend on hunting or fishing is the cost of getting there and that can be expensive.

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    well, moose goats and sheep are more plentiful up here than down there, those are mostly once in a life time tags.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FurFishGame View Post
    well, moose goats and sheep are more plentiful up here than down there, those are mostly once in a life time tags.
    Yes they are once in a lifetime tags if drawn. From what my friend told me (maybe someone from Idaho can chime in) they had left over moose permits due to the crazy rules in place. Ie can only apply for a moose permit no other permits etc. Also the tag fee even for residents is pretty steep compared to what we pay ... In no way am I saying residents (Alaska) fees go up jsut wondered why Alaska does not bring itself along the same lines as other states as far non-resident fees go. Go check out Idaho 3 day non resident fishing license for Salmon/steelhead... Tell you what Alaska missing out on some serious revenue from those tourist that fish for 3-4 days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 323 View Post
    Yes they are once in a lifetime tags if drawn. From what my friend told me (maybe someone from Idaho can chime in) they had left over moose permits due to the crazy rules in place. Ie can only apply for a moose permit no other permits etc. Also the tag fee even for residents is pretty steep compared to what we pay ... In no way am I saying residents (Alaska) fees go up jsut wondered why Alaska does not bring itself along the same lines as other states as far non-resident fees go. Go check out Idaho 3 day non resident fishing license for Salmon/steelhead... Tell you what Alaska missing out on some serious revenue from those tourist that fish for 3-4 days.
    The state lets the revenue come from the additional cost related to non-res hunters and fisherman. The locals get to fleece them as a secondary.

    In 2003 my dad retired to Lewiston. I have been considering going down there and spending some time hunting or fishing with him, but have yet to get off my butt to get it done. In 2004 I did make a trip in the summer with the kid and for our one day non-res fishing licenses we paid some top dollar fees. Those were the most expensive crappie I have ever caught, but the funnist as well.

    The problem for me is that the areas he and his buddy are going hunting in suck. Too many wolves and not enough elk or deer for the two old men to easily get to. He did get a small buck this year, but they were both blanked on elk. The area they are in has elk, but its not for the old men who are not in sheep shape. However, they did find some moose and that $100 plus resident moose drawing tag looks really tempting. Dad does miss the OTC general stuff up here.

    Still thinking about heading down to hunt with him before his age shuts him out of the woods completely. I spent some time up the Clearwater in the early 1990's and have some ideas about where to pick up some deer, but don't know if those deer are worth the fees.

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    Member GD Yankee's Avatar
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    Those kinds of prices are exactly the reason I stopped hunting in the western states. As always, the law of unintended consequences for those states. Or, for the resident hunters, probably the exact desired outcome...

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    Quote Originally Posted by 323 View Post
    I'm not one of those anti, ban out of state hunters but dang you think Alaska would be somewhat closer to other states as far non-resident fees.
    Quote Originally Posted by 323 View Post
    In no way am I saying residents (Alaska) fees go up jsut wondered why Alaska does not bring itself along the same lines as other states as far non-resident fees go.
    How about half a dozen reasons NOT to bring ourselves closer to other states' non-resident fees?
    1. We're unlike the other states in so many ways, why should we copy the other states on our non-resident fees?
    2. Our tax structure is probably overdue for an update, but consumer-based fee revenues are not traditionally our main revenue source.
    3. People come here to get away from the other states that are structured around fleecing residents and visitors, so why should we copy them?
    4. Expenses to get here and spend time here are significantly higher than in other states, and although it may not go directly to the state, our local economy already captures a good portion of those additional dollars.
    5. If our expenses were as high as other states, we would most likely price ourselves out of the market for many of those tourist dollars, especially since transportation to get here has become such a hurdle.
    6. In any case, "catching up" is a myth. Trying to achieve parity (to keep up with other states) has already been shown to be a failure in many other economic arenas, so if we raised our fees it would simply inflate the entire cost spiral in every state.

    Instead of Alaska raising our fees, it would be better for the entire US if the other states lowered their fees! As Smokey pointed out, we may be non-residents of other states, but we're all Americans and shouldn't be restricted from enjoying all that our nation has to offer.
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    Member Bigrob's Avatar
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    My Wife and I are planning a hunting trip to Idaho next fall for Elk and Muleys. Even with the airfare to Idaho it is still cheaper than hunting for Elk on Afognak.
    Last edited by Bigrob; 11-11-2011 at 10:44. Reason: spelling

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    Have to wonder if the F&G guys down there figure that if the rest of the country (through the Feds) decided that wolves were really a good thing - people from the rest of the country can help pay for the court fights and other expenses they are picking up for it.
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    Idaho has a wolf season now last time I talked to my bud a few weeks ago they were up to 69 wolves killed. I guess you have so many days to report your kill.

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    Member Steve Springer's Avatar
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    It's getting to the point where only the rich can hunt and that's Bulls*&$

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    Yes, it is expensive for non-residence hunter to hunt Idaho. Yes, several of the animals are once in a life-time animals if your drawn and IF you take an animal. Otherwise you can continue to put in for the hunts.

    I don't know if this is still the case but used to be, Idaho Fish and Game was totally supported by license and tag fees. No tax money went to the Dept.
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    It should be reciprocal. Say an Idaho hunter wants to come up here and take an Alaskan animal, he pays what his state hits us up for. So, a moose tag would be even more. It is a sad thing to put in the effort and time to work and live here to see others swoop in and take it. I'm thinking about the out of state "guides", out of state hunters, out of state commercial fishing companies. Our game, and the ability to enjoy that lifestyle, is so precious. It kind of pains me to see it carved away.

    Part of what influences my opinion on this topic is watching the proposed changes to our fish and game regulations when they come up. Politics, big dollars and high influence do indeed come into play. It's extremely refreshing when the "protect for ALL Alaskan hunters" sentiment comes to bear. Many of the regulation changes are proposed by people trying to keep other Alaskans out of the land, somehow.

    But, should Alaskans have priority? I think so. It cost to live up here. It's harder. It takes sacrifice and effort. When you also take into account that we're pretty much fined and feed to death to hunt anywhere else, being Alaskan has to count for something in the hunting/harvesting aspect.

    Look at the bear hunting on Kodiak. Is this equitable to Alaskans? Pay an outfitter thousands and thousands of dollars, go pop a big brownie that season. Steve Springer nailed it, it's getting so only the rich can hunt.

    It may get as bad as Canada with Shockey's scheme. They somehow lock up the best hunting grounds "concessions" and charge almost $20k to take a moose.

    I'd like to add that folks really need to watch those fish and game regulation change notices. It's a real education. Attend the meetings if you can too.

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    Member pike_palace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir View Post
    It should be reciprocal. Say an Idaho hunter wants to come up here and take an Alaskan animal, he pays what his state hits us up for. So, a moose tag would be even more. It is a sad thing to put in the effort and time to work and live here to see others swoop in and take it. I'm thinking about the out of state "guides", out of state hunters, out of state commercial fishing companies. Our game, and the ability to enjoy that lifestyle, is so precious. It kind of pains me to see it carved away.

    Part of what influences my opinion on this topic is watching the proposed changes to our fish and game regulations when they come up. Politics, big dollars and high influence do indeed come into play. It's extremely refreshing when the "protect for ALL Alaskan hunters" sentiment comes to bear. Many of the regulation changes are proposed by people trying to keep other Alaskans out of the land, somehow.

    But, should Alaskans have priority? I think so. It cost to live up here. It's harder. It takes sacrifice and effort. When you also take into account that we're pretty much fined and feed to death to hunt anywhere else, being Alaskan has to count for something in the hunting/harvesting aspect.

    Look at the bear hunting on Kodiak. Is this equitable to Alaskans? Pay an outfitter thousands and thousands of dollars, go pop a big brownie that season. Steve Springer nailed it, it's getting so only the rich can hunt.

    It may get as bad as Canada with Shockey's scheme. They somehow lock up the best hunting grounds "concessions" and charge almost $20k to take a moose.

    I'd like to add that folks really need to watch those fish and game regulation change notices. It's a real education. Attend the meetings if you can too.
    I couldn't agree more. The attitude I dispise most is the one held by many of these 'concession area' guides, and that it is 'their' land to hunt. I will never hunt Canada for this reason, or with a guide (the exception being I get to go to Africa in my lifetime).
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