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Thread: .451 vs .452 - 45ACP (460 Rowland)

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    Default .451 vs .452 - 45ACP (460 Rowland)

    So, for a little over a year now, I've had a Springfield XD converted to 460 rowland from WWG, with a 6" Bar-Sto barrel. So far, it digests factory 230 grn Cor-Bon jacketed (.451) ammo just fine, as well as my jacketed (.451) handloads. Unfortunately, 230 grn FMJ is not what I want to carry in the woods. I loaded up some hard cast .452 250 gr RNFP's, but they feed unreliably. They feed into the chamber just fine, but they will not seat fully into battery. I
    "think" it's because the chamber is tight, and the .452 bullets are not letting it headspace all the way. They will wedge about 1/16" from full battery. Should I try to size the hard cast down to .451? (difficult, since the Lee sizer I was going to buy comes with lube that Midwayusa considers hazmat and won't ship to AK) Or, is enlarging the chamber an option? Any inputs would be appreciated, thanks

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    It's possible sizing them down may fix it. But there are some other things to look at as well. I assume the 452 cast are already lubed and if so you should be able to run them through the Lee 451 sizer without problem. If they are difficult to push through, you can lube them with just about anything, case lube will work. How much of 452 part of the bullet is sticking out the end of the case? The bullet could be running into the end of the chamber. Also the bullet shape could be wrong for the leade in your barrel and could be hitting before the round fully chambers. Take the barrel out and insert a loaded round in the chamber to see if the base of the case is flush with the back end of the barrel. Mark the bullet with a magic marker and press it firmly in the chamber with your fingers then check to see where it is hitting. It should be easy to see the problem.

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    Order your sizer die from these guys. I bought one a few years ago, they just stuck it in the box with the rest of the stuff. Good prices as well. https://fsreloading.com/

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    I'd say it isn't that .001" difference but the lead and shoulder design of the bullet. Try seating them deeper a little at a time and see if that chambers.

    I presume this is the first hard cast you've tried??
    Also maybe when seating the bullet the case wasn't expanded enough and you shaved lead which left a build up of it in front of the case.

    Flare the case enough to start the bullet by hand then taper crimp enough to get the round to drop into the barrel freely. (remove barrel from gun) and use for a test fixture until you have nice, clean, easy seating rounds from the press.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    I'll try seating it deeper to see if it fixes it... it makes sense. It is a RNFP, with a visually similar ogive as ball, but with a flat point on it. It's entirely possible that it's catching on the leade. Since the barrel was a .45 ACP and then chambered to 460 Rowland, maybe they cut out some of the leade? I wonder.

    I'll have to reduce the load to seat any deeper, since the Rowland is so sensitive to pressure.

    Thanks guys!

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    Are you getting a good taper crimp on the load?
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Yes, in fact, in my initial frustrations with the seating problem, I think I over crimped a few of them. I'm in Los Anchorage right now, and don't have my equipment and components handy, but the ogive bottoming on the leade seems like it might be a winner... will have to play with it some more and check.

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    Professor Murphy, you are once again correct! I measured the Ogive of a ball round, and compared it to a RNFP, and relized just how far forward the lead rounds were in relationship to the rifling. I seated them deeper, and all of my seating problems have gone away. In addition, the loads are that much better, since after seating them deeper, I'm getting much higher velocities! (j/K-- I reduced the load by a few 1/10's to be safe) I previously considered myself an advanced hand loader, but as you have shown, I have a lot to learn...(or rather I realize I should have seen something so simple) But I digress... thanks for the advice!

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    Props also to rbuck... after re-reading this thread, I realize he was first with the answer....


    Thanks to all of you !

  10. #10

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    Order the Lee stuff from Lee precision direct, they will ship the sizer and postage is cheap compared to Midway, even flat rate....

    might try running the loaded cases into the Lee factory crimp die 45ACP die...

    I have a hard ball 1911 with a Barsto seems to like the RN 452 230 grainers fine...shoots good

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    Very wise advice, as always. Since I had a large batch of purchased reloads that did the same thing in a 45, which I had to seat just a bit to further to function well (just a bit hotter but ok), I now use the barrel as the go-no go guage. Also, drop all your self defense ammo in your barrel, hearing the thunk sound, before depending on them cycling when you need it.
    Last edited by Hunt-n-Fish; 11-21-2011 at 18:04. Reason: spelling

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    "Very wise advice, as always." was intended to acknowlege Murphy's comments. He is indeed "the man".

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