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Thread: Federal Justification

  1. #1
    Thewolfwatching
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    Default Federal Justification

    So, the question being.. How would the state maintain subsistence without Federal interference? What are everyone’s ideas to create a fair and justified subsistence authority based on state legislative movements or statue? And what further action is the state willing to take?

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    Default how to tell'm sayonara

    Does the SOA have more experience (per capita) than the feds with this? I bet it's so.... like maybe times ten?

    If so, what if the SOA passed legislation duplicating 90-some percent of what the feds are doing here subsistance-wise, with the proviso that the state statute goes into effect the second that the feds vacate their effort here, and then told the feds (possibly legally "telling" them) to go fly a kite (elsewhere)????

    After the feds are history in this arena, of course it would be up to the SOA to manage things as they (we) best see fit.

    One downside I can think of right away though is that I'm betting there's a good chance that non-Anchorage-based Alaskans might have more confidence in the feds than in Anchorage-ites....

    Just tossin' an offhand idea onto the pile...

  3. #3
    Thewolfwatching
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    Well, mmmm, the federal government is on the knife edge so I think these are legitimate questions… per say it was in the state’s ballpark without federal funding…. What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by FamilyMan View Post
    Does the SOA have more experience (per capita) than the feds with this? I bet it's so.... like maybe times ten?

    If so, what if the SOA passed legislation duplicating 90-some percent of what the feds are doing here subsistance-wise, with the proviso that the state statute goes into effect the second that the feds vacate their effort here, and then told the feds (possibly legally "telling" them) to go fly a kite (elsewhere)????

    After the feds are history in this arena, of course it would be up to the SOA to manage things as they (we) best see fit.

    One downside I can think of right away though is that I'm betting there's a good chance that non-Anchorage-based Alaskans might have more confidence in the feds than in Anchorage-ites....

    Just tossin' an offhand idea onto the pile...

  4. #4
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Looking at how long it took and the feds having to step in for the native peoples to get their land on paper I believe the state would fail.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    I've posted this several times here, here it is again, I still believe it's the only answer to align our state constitution with ANILCA provisions.

    http://www.alaskabackcountryhunters....bsistence.html

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    Exclamation Federal justification . . .

    For the United States federal government, the question of subsistence surfaced in 1971 when Congress was drafting the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act (ANCSA). The act addressed Native land claims that clouded construction of the Trans-Alaska Oil Pipeline. It extinguished aboriginal hunting and fishing rights in Alaska in exchange for almost $1 billion in cash and 44 million acres of land.


    ANCSA didn’t explicitly protect subsistence, but a Congressional conference report issued with the new law stated that Native subsistence practices and subsistence lands would be protected by the State of Alaska and U.S. Department of Interior.


    Congress made good on that promise in 1980, when it passed the landmark Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act [ANILCA]. Besides creating new national wildlife refuges and public recreation lands, ANILCA mandated that the state maintain a subsistence hunting and fishing preference for rural residents on federal public lands or forfeit its management of subsistence uses there.


    The State of Alaska, which had established its own subsistence law in 1978, took note of the discrepancy between the laws and amended state law in 1986 to match ANILCA by limiting subsistence uses to rural residents. The fix, however, didn’t last long. In 1989, the state Supreme Court ruled that the rural preference violated Alaska Constitution, including its “common use” provisions regarding use of fish and wildlife.


    As the state no longer guaranteed a rural preference for subsistence as required by ANILCA, the federal government moved to take over management of subsistence on federal public lands. Several attempts by the state to reconcile the two laws by amending the Alaska Constitution failed when supporters couldn’t muster enough votes in the Alaska Legislature to send a constitutional amendment to the state’s voters. Federal managers took over authority for subsistence on federal lands on July 1, 1990.

    http://subsistmgtinfo.org/basics.htm

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    The state was to do the land deal at the time of statehood and finally after twelve years of messing around the fed stepped in
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Wink Like it or lump it . . .

    Some Californians don't like federal preeminence over their state marijuana laws. Arkansas didn't like federal preeminence over its state segregation laws. Some Alaskans don't like federal preeminence over their state fish and game laws.

    We are part of the federal union. State laws are secondary to federal law when the two come into conflict. That's just the way it is.

    Welcome to the real world.

  9. #9
    Thewolfwatching
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    And when people are sick and tired of Federal Authority?.. what about when Federal Authority no longer meets the needs of the people; what happens when the Feds that were suppose to protect the people under our constitutional rights destroy our rights and turn it into an institution? Especially an institution based on profit…
    Preservation of our subsistence rights should be #1 i.e. the right to sustains one life.. but what if.. what if that right gets swept under the rug when the Feds are diminished? What’s the state willing to do to protect it??
    Welcome to the world as it is NOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    Some Californians don't like federal preeminence over their state marijuana laws. Arkansas didn't like federal preeminence over its state segregation laws. Some Alaskans don't like federal preeminence over their state fish and game laws.

    We are part of the federal union. State laws are secondary to federal law when the two come into conflict. That's just the way it is.

    Welcome to the real world.

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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by Thewolfwatching View Post
    And when people are sick and tired of Federal Authority?.. what about when Federal Authority no longer meets the needs of the people; what happens when the Feds that were suppose to protect the people under our constitutional rights destroy our rights . .

    As a nation, we've been there, done that . . ask Jefferson Davis how it worked for him.

    Each of us must try to understand—and accept, for better or for worse—the nature of our democracy. It's simply childish to whine and moan and accuse the system of being rigged or the politicians of being crooked or yadda, yadda, yadda, if things don't work the way I want them to or, in my superior wisdom, think they should. I don't happen to agree with abortion rights . . tough. All I can do is to work the best I know how to change public opinion. In the meantime, we get what we vote for, we get what we deserve.

  11. #11
    Thewolfwatching
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    I don’t disagree with what you’re saying but as a “democracy” it’s up to US to change the system! It’s OUR responsibility and, as in Rome, democracy is slowly killed by ‘the people’ not maintaining their rights.. If no solutions are being offered by the people than they can, yes, simply blame there selves.. I’m trying to instigate resolutions – not redundant blaming..
    This topic was i
    nitiated in the light of independence.. not dependence on a failing system.. Call it a proactive conversation.. ;-)


    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post

    As a nation, we've been there, done that . . ask Jefferson Davis how it worked for him.

    Each of us must try to understand—and accept, for better or for worse—the nature of our democracy. It's simply childish to whine and moan and accuse the system of being rigged or the politicians of being crooked or yadda, yadda, yadda, if things don't work the way I want them to or, in my superior wisdom, think they should. I don't happen to agree with abortion rights . . tough. All I can do is to work the best I know how to change public opinion. In the meantime, we get what we vote for, we get what we deserve.

  12. #12
    Thewolfwatching
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    Oh, BTW the nature of our democracy is only dictated by US, as the people.. AND I REFUSE to accept anything less than!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post

    As a nation, we've been there, done that . . ask Jefferson Davis how it worked for him.

    Each of us must try to understand—and accept, for better or for worse—the nature of our democracy. It's simply childish to whine and moan and accuse the system of being rigged or the politicians of being crooked or yadda, yadda, yadda, if things don't work the way I want them to or, in my superior wisdom, think they should. I don't happen to agree with abortion rights . . tough. All I can do is to work the best I know how to change public opinion. In the meantime, we get what we vote for, we get what we deserve.

  13. #13

    Default

    IF our chosen governors willfully chose to discriminate against their citizenry, then is only acceptable to myself, if it is done in an equitable manner.
    To do it any other way sorta imo takes the fairness out of the equation...no matter the amount of justification one might heap on it.
    IF resources are too scarce to meet the demand, then an honest, above board lottery should be held. Remember Drawing Straws??? Did anyone ever complain about losing or gloat about winning, when it was a fair chance decision? So simple...that Equality Thing...perhaps why it has been abandoned for so long.

    I agree, WE collectively need to be thinking how WE as Alaskans are going to govern ourselves. It is plain enough to me, that the Federal Government thus far hasn't been a real peachy deal for anyone. The past nonsense WE have endured should be plenty evident that dividing social classes by zip codes, monetary worth, annual income, DNA, culture, age, disabilities, yada can only produce more of the same...Division.

    Too think that the Puppetmasters did not carefully craft and draft the multiple levels of social classes through social engineering...would be a mistake I think. Moreover, I am totally convinced it has been totally orchestrated, with Alaska being a seperate study in and of itself. Why else would WE be so self revered/proclaimed/professed to be the most indepentant of individuals, yet the most dependant collectively???

    Will WE Alaskans be a people United?
    or
    Will WE Alaskans remain a people Divided?
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

  14. #14
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    We are a Republic governed by mob rule Democracy. The Constitution confirmed our rights gave us nothing.We will always be seperate insted of together as one lifestyle places material things first and resource second and one group resource first and material things a dream as tools to take resource cost climb do the lifestyle change forced and now accepted as a must way of life.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

  15. #15
    Thewolfwatching
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    IF our chosen governors willfully chose to discriminate against their citizenry, then is only acceptable to myself, if it is done in an equitable manner.
    No!!! Chosen or not it’s not acceptable! And it never will be… Alaskan’s will be a people united! And not a sold out republic…of people divided…
    ;-) - OH sorry lol..

    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    IF our chosen governors willfully chose to discriminate against their citizenry, then is only acceptable to myself, if it is done in an equitable manner.
    To do it any other way sorta imo takes the fairness out of the equation...no matter the amount of justification one might heap on it.
    IF resources are too scarce to meet the demand, then an honest, above board lottery should be held. Remember Drawing Straws??? Did anyone ever complain about losing or gloat about winning, when it was a fair chance decision? So simple...that Equality Thing...perhaps why it has been abandoned for so long.

    I agree, WE collectively need to be thinking how WE as Alaskans are going to govern ourselves. It is plain enough to me, that the Federal Government thus far hasn't been a real peachy deal for anyone. The past nonsense WE have endured should be plenty evident that dividing social classes by zip codes, monetary worth, annual income, DNA, culture, age, disabilities, yada can only produce more of the same...Division.

    Too think that the Puppetmasters did not carefully craft and draft the multiple levels of social classes through social engineering...would be a mistake I think. Moreover, I am totally convinced it has been totally orchestrated, with Alaska being a seperate study in and of itself. Why else would WE be so self revered/proclaimed/professed to be the most indepentant of individuals, yet the most dependant collectively???

    Will WE Alaskans be a people United?
    or
    Will WE Alaskans remain a people Divided?

  16. #16
    Thewolfwatching
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    Amigo.. We ARE working on it okay.. just takes some time to correct things born out of greed instead of logic/compassion/humanity.. hang in there..
    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    We are a Republic governed by mob rule Democracy. The Constitution confirmed our rights gave us nothing.We will always be seperate insted of together as one lifestyle places material things first and resource second and one group resource first and material things a dream as tools to take resource cost climb do the lifestyle change forced and now accepted as a must way of life.

  17. #17

    Default Allocation Of Opportunity

    What I think most folks lose sight of is the fact we are discussing Allocation of Opportunity in all this...Not offering up a given Moose or Caribou for slaughter and food.

    WE have become accustomed to allocating opportunity in various ways ie based on ability vs inability, local vs non-local, resident vs non-resident, so forth and so on....the list is humongous. Without exception, the very governmental agency tasked in doling out the opportunities come up with direct opposite methods of allocation...all of course based on "justification".

    I contend it is based solely on Emotion and Monetary/Prestigious Gain. For instance, in Federal Law there are so many contradictory statutes/laws/mandates that it makes it impossible for myself to reckon with.
    As an example...Local Hire Laws vs Licensing Requirements: The Feds have adopted/approved Local Hire Practices but fall back on the old InterState Commerce Laws to bypass or get around having to enforce their own stupidity.
    Yet another classic is how WE have our governors wanting to allocate opportunity based on ability ie Guide Concession Program and the same governors stand behind Non-Competative Contract Awards and Minority Enhancement Programs.

    The real question in my mind is:
    How do WE want to Allocate Opportunity?

    The answer in my mind always rests with the fact:
    Allocations based on one's ability, inability, demographics or culture (each of which are always subjective to interpretation and never fully quantiified/qualified) will Always leave a segment of our society disenfranchised. I would much rather take my chances at opportunities through the luck of the draw.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

  18. #18
    Thewolfwatching
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    How do WE want to Allocate Opportunity?”

    Exactly.. How do we cut the cords of mismanagement and lay a strong foundation for fair and unbiased self-management without federal involvement? People can say, “I want,” all day long but without solutions the point becomes null and void. If everyone who screams and yells in re to Federal mismanagement utilized that energy, and put it into action, something might actually get done.

    Does SOA even want the responsibility? Seems the powers that be are more than willing to shed responsibility at a drop of a hat! Question being: How does one begin the process of putting Allocation of Opportunity back into the hands of the people and out of the hands of those willing to step on anyone’s head for their personal gain.

    What’s the first step in the right direction?

    *I’d really like to see a poll and get the general consensus.

    Btw I’d give you rep but it won’t let me.. Excellent post!!! Sir..

    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    What I think most folks lose sight of is the fact we are discussing Allocation of Opportunity in all this...Not offering up a given Moose or Caribou for slaughter and food.

    WE have become accustomed to allocating opportunity in various ways ie based on ability vs inability, local vs non-local, resident vs non-resident, so forth and so on....the list is humongous. Without exception, the very governmental agency tasked in doling out the opportunities come up with direct opposite methods of allocation...all of course based on "justification".

    I contend it is based solely on Emotion and Monetary/Prestigious Gain. For instance, in Federal Law there are so many contradictory statutes/laws/mandates that it makes it impossible for myself to reckon with.
    As an example...Local Hire Laws vs Licensing Requirements: The Feds have adopted/approved Local Hire Practices but fall back on the old InterState Commerce Laws to bypass or get around having to enforce their own stupidity.
    Yet another classic is how WE have our governors wanting to allocate opportunity based on ability ie Guide Concession Program and the same governors stand behind Non-Competative Contract Awards and Minority Enhancement Programs.

    The real question in my mind is:
    How do WE want to Allocate Opportunity?

    The answer in my mind always rests with the fact:
    Allocations based on one's ability, inability, demographics or culture (each of which are always subjective to interpretation and never fully quantiified/qualified) will Always leave a segment of our society disenfranchised. I would much rather take my chances at opportunities through the luck of the draw.

  19. #19
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    If the state had control then through voting the numbers of peoples of Anchorage could sway the vote that they get first crack at everything do to having to be back at work on Monday.We are so close now to Anchorage being able to control the whole state by vote numbers its scary.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

  20. #20
    Thewolfwatching
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    Will NOT happen.. cause WE wont let it happen! This is all up to us.... as a 'people'..
    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    If the state had control then through voting the numbers of peoples of Anchorage could sway the vote that they get first crack at everything do to having to be back at work on Monday.We are so close now to Anchorage being able to control the whole state by vote numbers its scary.

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