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Thread: small over and under shotgun/rifle for under snow machine seat.

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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Default small over and under shotgun/rifle for under snow machine seat.

    Anyone tote an over and under shotgun/rifle combo in the winter?

    Considering that a long receiver is non existent, some of these guns might do well under a snow machine seat. It's a bummer that Savage no longer makes one. Does anyone have any experience with the Bakail MP94 versions? I noticed they make a cheap one (only $250) and it's chambered for 22 magnum/ 3" 410. The barrel is only 20 inches and I think the overall length was only 36". I think It might be the only gun that will fit under my snowmachine seat. With a few 410 rifled slugs, some 3" #6 birdshot, and some 22 magnum fmj's, this might make a very versatile trapline/snowmachine type rifle.

    I would have no qualms cutting both barrels down to 16", and taking another 1.5" off the buttstock since it's such a cheap rifle. Put the end cap back on, and be done with it. Cylinder bore for 410 would be no problem. The overall length would be under 32". With such a cheap gun, you could probably do it at home and still have decent accuracy from the 22 mag barrel if you took care to squarely cut the barrel with a good metal cutting saw. Some "bubba gunsmith way to crown the end of the rifle barrel and.......... 2.5-3" groups at 100 yards would be fine with the 22 magnum barrel.

    A link to a bunch of hunting photos with Baikal combo guns:

    http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...art=15&t=73329



    The 410/22 magnum is much smaller than this model but very similar:

  2. #2

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    I've been looking for the same thing. Got outbid on a 22mag/410 savage the other night, but found a 22mag/20gauge and won it for 295 on gunbroker. Check on there, you can get one for less than 350 pretty easy. I can't wait to get mine in. Really wanted the 410 cuz you can carry alot more shells, but the 20 would probably be more versatile with better buckshot and slugs. Check gunbroker, there are plenty on there.

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    Congrats to you! That 410/22mag Savage 24F was what I always wanted for an under seat gun. Although a see through scope mount is kind of like a deadly sin, I'd certainly tolerate it on the gun with a little fixed 2x scope for the 22 and open sights for the 410. Please let us know how she shoots. I hate koplin cases, and they are always in the way when attached to a snowmachine on tight trails. I also don't like slinging a rifle across my back when riding a snowmachine because I usually have a passenger.

    Some time ago, I shut off my snow machine, flipped the seat open, and grabbed a scoped 17hmr single six I used to own. I shot a rabbit in seconds. Another time, I went to pull my 223 ruger out of a koplin gun case in the freight sled for a lynx that was across an open 75 yd clearing. I never got the gun ready in time. Had I carried a little back up like your Savage 24F, I would be wearing a nice lnyx lined mitts and a hat right now, and had a great " cat-roast" better n any thanksgiving turkey!

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    had an old friend some yrs. back that always carried an o/u .410 & .22 hornet combo made by Springfield a M6 I believe it was, all metal, shell carrier within buttstock end. took quite abit of small game plus able to knock down Caribou with it as well.

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    I remember those, they were crude but always worked. Didn't they use a lever instead of a trigger? I think CZ made that model for a while too. I like the 22 hornet, and would have no qualms against that either. A 22hornet/20 gauge Savage 24F would probably be the ultimate if it was still made. But.....gotta go with what's avail. I shot a small whitetail buck with a 22 magnum (one shot kill to the neck), skunks, porcupine, coons, grouse, rabbits, beaver, and coyotes. Although a 22 magnum aint quite a 22 hornet, it still works.

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    I just measured my snow machine under seat storage. I have a maximum of 33 inches to work with. Look's like the Baikal would work, BUT......I may have to do this:


  7. #7

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    Hey mainer here is a link to a thread in the swapnsell forum for a .22/.410 Savage 24E. It won't last long.

    GUN LINK

    I used to have a Savage 20g/22lr and I miss everything about it other than the weight. That shouldn't be an issue under your snowmachine seat. Neat guns that do fill a niche. Good luck finding one that suits you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tailwind View Post
    It won't last long.
    Was what go's through my mind.......

    Your gonna drive around with this combo under your seat? Are you gonna make a case for it or secure it in some way?

    I have a scabbard screwed to the left side of my cowling, and if thats not there, I place the butt on the running board and secure the rifle with a bunji cord over the gas tank, and my leg over the rifle as well.
    If I use the sling, I ride the rifle across my chest, so when I crash, I can tuck and roll insted of breaking my back

    When I have an animal in site or tracking, I carry the rifle on my lap, ready to go, safety on, so , again, if I crash, the gun flys free...
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

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    [QUOTE=strangerinastrangeland;1031461]If I use the sling, I ride the rifle across my chest, so when I crash, I can tuck and roll insted of breaking my backQUOTE]
    Was/is my thought every time I see someone riding around on anything with a rifle slung over their back. Iím no snow machine guy but I grew up horseback and know a rifle slung on your back is a very bad idea. They stick up or hang out where you can't see it, grab every bush and yank on you or yank you clear off and then heart like hell when you land on them!

    Iíd like a 223 over and 12g or 20g under myself, be a handy tool to have around I think
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    Default Don't go to JAIL!!!!

    I would have no qualms cutting both barrels down to 16", and taking another 1.5" off the buttstock since it's such a cheap rifle.


    Mainer,

    DO NOT cut that combo barrel to 16"....it is a shotgun and ATF will be happy to put you in jail if they catch you with it. A shotgun MUST be no less than 18" long!!!

    MEASURE TWICE, CUT ONCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    By the way if you get a 22lr over 20ga or 410 you can run a 22 mag reamer into the 22lr chamber and have a nice shooting 22 mag. Just make sure you remove the extractor BEFORE you cut the chamber and then fit the extractor AFTER you do the reaming.

    Mine is cut to 18 1/2" and the 20ga kills birds just fine to 25 to 30 yds with 7 1/2 shot and I can get 3" groups at 50 yds with PMC Predator 22 mag ammo using a Williams peep.\

    I just got another in 22lr/410 for $150 with some BAD checkering so there are some deals out there on the old Model 24's.

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    Default Just for comparison

    Just for size comparison, top to bottom, CZ 455 in 22mag (~20"); Marlin 336 with 16 1/2" barrel in 30-30AI; Savage 24, 22 mag/20ga cut to 18 1/2" (LOP 13"); Savage 24, 22LR/410 (24" barrels); CZ 452 (17" barrel) with suppressor and light in 22LR.




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    Lowrider, thanks for that heads-up. I forgot about that. 18" on the shotgun barrel. That little savage 22lr/20ga is a dandy little gun! What is the length on that? I'm guessing 34".

    Stranger,
    Nice idea with a scabbard attached to the cowling. I prefer under my seat as it's instantaneous to access. I have some extra foam from an old pelican case that you can cut to shape. A small piece of that will set in the corner of my underseat storage cut to shape to hole the rifle.

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    Good guess....34 1/2"...it breaks down to the 18 1/2" barrel length. Interesting enough, Lightfield slugs shoot to the same point of aim as the 22 Mag.

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    I have a Savage 24S-E 20 ga/ 22lr. Good condition. Stock has been painted black. Would ship it to your dealer for $350.00

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    Quote Originally Posted by Str8shot View Post
    I have a Savage 24S-E 20 ga/ 22lr. Good condition. Stock has been painted black. Would ship it to your dealer for $350.00
    I appreciate the offer sir, but I'm dead set on the 410 barrel. The sole reason for this is because the small 100 grain hard cast 410 rifled slugs will go clean through a coyote, fox, or lnyx within 75 yds should I miss with the 22 magnum. I have a cousin who shot a deer with a 410 slug when we were young teenagers. The slug left a clean hole through the entire boadside-shot deer. The deer ran about 30-40 yards with a good blood trail. The impact of the little slug from a short barrel is usually only about 1,600 fps. I'd guess. The 410 slugs and the 22 magnum are both very gentle on fur bearing critters with the 22 magnum good for a bit longer shot. The #6 410 does well for bouncing rabbits or flying ptarmigan and grouse. Depending on the scenario, I'd have the gun either loaded with a #6 shot or a small rifled slug in the shotgun barrel, and a 40 grain FMJ in the rifle barrel. With an emphasis on fur bearing animals, and small game scenarios while snowmaching, this combo is about as versatile as it gets IMO.

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    mainer, just a thought. I was really wanting a 410 as well for the fact of carrying more ammo. However, the 20 is deffinitly more versatile, the shot, buckshot and slugs are better. Anyway, you can buy shotgun adapters and shoot 410 in the 20 as well as the 20. They are on;y like 30 bucks. here is the link

    http://www.shotgunadapter.com/


    The 22mag/410 are going for big money unless you go with the baikal. I just don't like the sights on them and don't wanna have to put a scope on one cuz it would lose its handiness to me. Not trying to persuade or anything, but just an option.

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    lowrider, is that a williams peep on the cut down 24? The 24 i just won on gunbroker has been drilled and tapped for one and i've never used one, just curious if you like it or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak View Post
    The sole reason for this is because the small 100 grain hard cast 410 rifled slugs will go clean through a coyote, fox, or lnyx within 75 yds should I miss with the 22 magnum.
    So will a 20 and a hole lot more, 20 with good slugs is bear medicine and 410 just arenít. I have a couple 410s and they are fun but 20 is a WAY hole bunch mo-betta at everything. Then thereís ammo, how many are you gonna pack that you need more room anyway? And 20 is easy to find in all kinds of flavors, when I go hunting 410 shells there just isnít much choice and what there is usually pricy stuff being marketed to Judge owners in boxes of 5.
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoneman View Post
    lowrider, is that a williams peep on the cut down 24? The 24 i just won on gunbroker has been drilled and tapped for one and i've never used one, just curious if you like it or not.
    Phoneman,

    It is a Williams and I like it a lot. I also have them on some 22's and my 1894 in 44 mag. I take the apature out and just use the hole that it screws into as a "ghost" ring. On the 24 it allows pretty good shooting out to 50-60 yds then the front sight gets too big and covers most of the target on smaller critters. Mine is not terribly accurate even with the 22LR before I cut it and rechambered to 22 Mag. I get about 3" groups at 50 yds and that is still good enough to take coon, fox and the like.

    The only problem with the Williams is it gets caught on things since it does stick up and out some. Otherwise, I love it!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak View Post
    I appreciate the offer sir, but I'm dead set on the 410 barrel. The sole reason for this is because the small 100 grain hard cast 410 rifled slugs will go clean through a coyote, fox, or lnyx within 75 yds should I miss with the 22 magnum. I have a cousin who shot a deer with a 410 slug when we were young teenagers. The slug left a clean hole through the entire boadside-shot deer. The deer ran about 30-40 yards with a good blood trail. The impact of the little slug from a short barrel is usually only about 1,600 fps. I'd guess. The 410 slugs and the 22 magnum are both very gentle on fur bearing critters with the 22 magnum good for a bit longer shot. The #6 410 does well for bouncing rabbits or flying ptarmigan and grouse. Depending on the scenario, I'd have the gun either loaded with a #6 shot or a small rifled slug in the shotgun barrel, and a 40 grain FMJ in the rifle barrel. With an emphasis on fur bearing animals, and small game scenarios while snowmaching, this combo is about as versatile as it gets IMO.
    Mainer,

    I understand your point about the 410 slug but the Model 24 410 I just picked up shoots Federal HV slugs a foot or more to the right and low using the rifle zero. It also does about an 8" group at 25 yds....they are all over the place and at least mine is NOT something you could count on to hit with beyond 10 yds or so. I only fired about 6 or 7 slugs and gave up on that process. It does throw a nice pattern with 2 1/2" 7 1/2 shot about centered on the rifle POA. My best bet with my 410 is use the shot and 22LR and forget the slugs.

    My cut off 22 Mag/20ga shoots slugs a lot better than the 410 and to roughly the same POA as the 22 Mag. I have only shot about 15 slugs thru the gun and it will shoot a 2" group at 25 yds so I would probably take a shot at a deer size target at 75 yds with the 20 ga slugs.

    I use an H&R 20 ga rifled single with a Leupold 2-7 compact for deer when required in shotgun only areas and Lightfield slugs shoot inside 3" at 100yds from an 18 1/2" barrel I cut down. It is a killing machine!! The new high velocity sabot slugs shoot like a rifle and from the performance I've seen on deer, I would not hesitate to shoot a caribou or elk with one given proper shot inside 100 yds. They go thru a 200 lb deer like butter. I just gave away to my sons three 12 ga slug guns...I'll never use a 12 ga again on deer size game after the results I've seen with the 20 ga slugs.

    ADfields is right, the 20 ga is a lot more gun than the 410 and cheaper to shoot. I don't know if all the 410 shoot slugs as poorly as mine but it is something to consider. ALso, the 20 ga can be handloaded with lead #2 or you can use #3 buckshot and have little pelt damage.

    This may be a silly idea, but I have thought of having the 20ga barrel on my Model 24 threaded for screw in chokes to tighten up the shot pattern some. I like a tight dense pattern using 7 1/2 shot better than using bigger shot sizes from an open choke at least on bunnys, squirrels and birds....just a thought.

    By the way, 3" mag #4 steel kills geese and ducks just fine if you get shots inside 25 yds....try that with a 410.

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