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Thread: beneli nova or stoeger 2000?

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    Default beneli nova or stoeger 2000?

    so I want to get a shotgun for basically bear saftey and fun. I was wanting to get a semi auto but I'm kind of torn here. I can eithe get a stoeger semi auto 12 ga or a benelli nova pump( I believe thats the name) I dont have a shotgun yet so I'm not sure if the semi auto is really worth it if I were to get the benelli I'm sure it would be reliable.Any thoughts?

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    Member 1Cor15:19's Avatar
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    I'd recommend the pump.
    Foolishness is a moral category, not an intellectual one.

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    If i was going to go with a pump I would go with a Remington 870. I think one of the best pumps out there.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    +1 for pump
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    +1 on the pump. I'd go handle an 870 and a nova. The nova's are good quality guns, but are a lot different feel than the 870. I can shoot great with an 870 but can't hit a thing with a nova. Other's I know are opposite.
    I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Cor15:19 View Post
    I'd recommend the pump.
    Why the pump over the auto? Full disclosure: I carry a Mossberg 590 pump for bears. Just never really thought about the difference in reliability between a pump and an auot, curious on anyones thoughts.

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    I hunted pheasants for 6 days with a borrowed, virtually new Stoeger 2000. Let's put it this way, I had VERY GOOD reason to connect on the first shot. Feeding was less than 50% for a second shot. If that one went into the chamber where it belonged, fine. Cuzz I never had #3 hit the chamber. Those were standard 1 1/4 oz lead loads, BTW. Could have been that particular gun was a lemon, but the sour taste is still in my mouth.

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    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    I've had a Benelli Nova and liked it quite a bit as well as 870s, 500s, 590s etc. They all worked fine.

    I also have a Benelli M2 auto and its fed 100% with everything from 2.75" target loads to 3" slugs and heavy buckshot...

    Can't say one is more reliable than the other, at least in my experience.

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    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    Why not an auto that uses the inertia bolt system? Because of the famous Beneli "click". It happens when ever the bolt is pulled ever so little back which puts it out of battery. However the firing pin will still work, but the bolt face is no longer in contact with the shell base and all you get is a click. This happens to me with my M2000 two to three times a year. It is a real PITA when hare hunting since the bolt handle gets hit by brush all day long. Plus my M2000 has to be loaded the exact way the manual says to or it will not cycle the second shot.

    M2000 for bears? Only if your plan is to get eaten by one.

    For a fighting weapon I would stick with an 870, and have a scatter gun tech rear ghost ring sight installed. Slick up the action with basic gunsmith skills (use it) and you have a good brush gun.

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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    I have a benneli nova. There is a plunger assy in the action that if it gets wet and you don't thoroughly dry it, it'll rust up. When that happens, you have a single shot.

    That said, I shotgun is far from the best choice for bear defense. So if you want a bird gun, get a shotgun, if you want a bear gun, get a rifle.
    Those that are successful in Alaska are those who are flexible, and allow the reality of life in Alaska to shape their dreams, vs. trying to force their dreams on the reality of Alaska.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul H View Post
    That said, I shotgun is far from the best choice for bear defense. So if you want a bird gun, get a shotgun, if you want a bear gun, get a rifle.
    Whats wrong with the shotgun for bears?

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    i ended up getting a saiga 12ga we'll see how it does. i spent a little more but it should be fun

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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limon32 View Post
    Whats wrong with the shotgun for bears?
    Several things.

    Let's try to do a comparison. A 12 ga with 3 1/2" shells has recoil on par with a 375 H&H, so lets compare the two:

    First lets take the argument that with a shotgun you don't have to aim as it'll make a pattern. Ok, place a target at 10 paces, and shoot a load of OO at the target. How many of the pellets made it into the vitals? If you use an open choke, 1 or 2, if you have a tight choke, then essentially you are looking at a single mass of shot, which really compares to a single projectile, that has to be aimed.

    What is the terminal performance of a single pellet of shot? We're talking a 30 caliber round ball @ 1200 fps, which is somewhere in the range of a 9mm luger, but with a lighter bullet. If you consider a 9mm a fully capable bear round, then the 12 ga is your huckleberry, if not, you might want to re-assess the choice of 00.

    Ok, so you've decided you don't feel lucky enough to trust OO to both patern enough to take aiming out of the equation, nor are you willing to trust your life to a single OO pellet. So now you switch to the mightly slug.

    Now we compare the slug to a 375 H&H, or ~550 gr @ 1200 fps to 300 gr @ 2500 fps. With the slug you can either make it soft so it expands and creates a large cavity, albeit shallow, or you can make it hard so that it penetrates deep, but you give up wound cavity dia. The 375 H&H with a good expanding bullet will both create a decent diameter of wound, and enough penetration to exit in most instances.

    Then look at the data from the field. Many deer at taken with shotguns with both OO and slugs. Deer hunters aren't under anywhere near the stress of somebody being charged by a bear, and deer are about 1/4 to 1/5 the size of bears. Shotguns do not have a steller record against deer, they are used where required by legislation, rarely by choice.

    You can also look up several instances were shotguns were used in DLP's agains bears, and the results were less than steller.

    To me, I figure in a charge I want a firearm that will tilt the odds in my favor, and one that will be capable of doing the job with one shot, as that might be all I manage to get off. So with the question of with one shot, which do you choose 12 ga or 375 H&H? It's hard to believe the question even needs to be asked when the 375 H&H is 99 years old, and has a well and proven track record against dangerous game the world over, for a century. Not to mention the bullets available today are even better than they were when the H&H was introduced. The 12 ga was designed as, and produced for hunting birds. Yes, it has been adapted for use in hunting medium sized non dangerous game, and has even been applied against dangerous game. But it simply has never had a universal acceptance against dangerous game due to many failures and shortcomings.
    Those that are successful in Alaska are those who are flexible, and allow the reality of life in Alaska to shape their dreams, vs. trying to force their dreams on the reality of Alaska.

    If you have a tenuous grasp of reality, Alaska is not for you.

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    Paul, I appreciate your thoughtfull response to my question, often that question gets less thought out answers.

    I totally agree with you on your dislike for shooting buckshot at bears.

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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    We should have a sticky post on why shotguns are less than steller for bears.

    When I first moved up here, I followed the common advice of use a 12 ga w/ 00 or slugs, or mix and match for bears. Then I finally shot paper with the 00 and found out reality differes from common advice. Also the Mossberg 590 I purchased had an annoying habbit of occasionally feeding the round in the magazine after the action had been cycled. So instead of a fresh round in the chamber, there was an empty chamber and a round on the ground.
    Those that are successful in Alaska are those who are flexible, and allow the reality of life in Alaska to shape their dreams, vs. trying to force their dreams on the reality of Alaska.

    If you have a tenuous grasp of reality, Alaska is not for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul H View Post
    We should have a sticky post on why shotguns are less than steller for bears.
    Yet I know someone who has killed more than 5 bears with a shotgun and buckshot. As always, YMMV.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shawnmcalpin View Post
    so I want to get a shotgun for basically bear saftey and fun. I was wanting to get a semi auto but I'm kind of torn here. I can eithe get a stoeger semi auto 12 ga or a benelli nova pump( I believe thats the name) I dont have a shotgun yet so I'm not sure if the semi auto is really worth it if I were to get the benelli I'm sure it would be reliable.Any thoughts?
    The stoeger pump and the benelli pump are literally have the same design. They both are rotating bolt lock-up except the nova has some sort of plastic "over mold" on the receiver. I was checking out the nova and did own a stoeger pump because I was a huge fan of the rotating bolt lock-up. My stoeger sounded like a bank vault when you cycled it. The rails are very strong to. I accidentally got a choke stuck in the gun though because I forgot to grease it, and that didn't turn out too well(for those of you who remember). Stoeger's customer service was great about it and sent me everything I needed to get the gun right again. My only problem was trying to get my hands on an 18" spare barrel. It was kind of costly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildalaska View Post
    Yet I know someone who has killed more than 5 bears with a shotgun and buckshot. As always, YMMV.
    Those guys in Portage did it with #4 steel!

    Local gun shop had some solid steel slugs sitting on the counter when I was in there the other day, 2-3/4 inch, don't recall the weight of the slug. Shop owner said they were pretty new, I didn't recognize the name on the box. Interesting concept, I still carry Brennekes.

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