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Thread: When will we talk about guns.....again??

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    Default When will we talk about guns.....again??

    Is it winter in Alaska already?

    What has happened to the discussions about guns? Is it all too much to ponder to come up with a good subject that is about guns and not about the host of a TV show or just links to u-tube or other more interesting forums?

    Where has this forum gone?

    How about some interesting do it your self gunsmithing, handloading, or upgrade projects. The G20 thread......how to up grade the 10 MM, thats was good. I even got my G20 out and upgraded a few parts. Cast bullets in an AR.....another good subject. And a handloading thread that isn't just hey where can I buy a Lee Factory crimp die? You know something with some meat in it.

    It seems this forum is used so much as just an where can I go to get this done rather than telling us how you did it.

    I thought Alaskan were self sufficient, did all that needs done when the need arrises. Is it not that way anymore?

    I've withdrawn from the day to to activities here because I've had more pressing projects but would like to get back to posting about some of the things I've been working on. I did get a little tired of the orchestrated effort to discredit my work but I guess that's to be expected from some.

    Let's see in the past year I've regained my Master classification in Bullseye pistol, NRA action pistol (Bianchi Cup), and USPSA/IPSC.....Other than that my pistol skills have sagged. I have made progress on my range but sadly still not complete. I've conducted a few classes and sponsored a couple shoots at my place. Oh yeah, I shot a Buffalo and Eland with my 416 and a Sable with the 375. I am getting some practice at Glock-smithing and have found the gun to be interesting but still cheap and ugly.....but very reliable.

    My shooting range is located an hour south of Sierra Bullets & Starline Brass. I am 45 minutes north of the Fiocchi Ammo manufacturing facility and the nice, new indoor shooting range called The Sounds Of Freedom, located in Ozark Missouri. Hodgdon's Powder is about three hours drive away so I'm somewhat centrally located here and don't have logistic problems for components or ammo. UPS, FEDEX and the U.S. Mail deliver to my door quite often.

    So much for the mundane of this world......What's new in the gun community today. Any new models, any old models worth talking about?
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post

    It seems this forum is used so much as just an where can I go to get this done rather than telling us how you did it.

    I thought Alaskan were self sufficient, did all that needs done when the need arrises. Is it not that way anymore?
    That caught my eye in all you (rightfully) pointed out. It seems there's been a generational shift all across the country that has moved into Alaska as well. Folks just aren't making things themselves any more. "Why go to the trouble when you can buy it?"

    Maybe I'm more of a geezer than I ever admitted to myself, and sorry if I'm wrongly casting you in the same light. But I grew up in an era when you wouldn't think of buying ANYTHING you could make yourself, and craftsmen of every sort were within easy reach, and usually willing to foster interested beginners. In one memorable (to me) thread in the Handgun section a few months back, someone asked what's the best handgun belt. Sources from all over heck were touted with prices ranging from high to higher. I felt kind of like a skunk at a lawn party for even pointing out that guys could buy the materials to assemble their own for less than $10 from Tandy. Ah well, geezer I am and proud of my heritage of doing things for myself.

    To tell you how much I've rebelled against the trend away from self-suffiencey, both nationally and in Alaska, in the last 5 years I've bought or built 28 traditional muzzleloaders and not a single modern gun. That's just because I can build virtually all the stuff myself, and choose to do so. I have three safes full of the modern stuff that I'll pass on to my grandkids, but I don't shoot them much at all any more.

    Last year I shot a deer with a rifle I built myself, using a flint I chipped myself and patch I cut myself coated with a lube I made myself wrapped around a ball I cast myself. I called the deer with a call I made myself, stored in a leather shooting bag I made myself along with a powder horn, bullet block, cleaning tools and knife all made by yours truly. I'm not making my own clothes yet, but I figure that may be next.

    Yeah, I'm in full rebellion against the current trend, and it feels darned good, even if perty lonely.

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    I just ordered a stainless left handed Ruger 30-06 and a Shilen stainless 9.3 barrel. Winter will see these parts morph into a 9.3x62.

    As far as making things myself just added another 400 pounds of bullet alloy to the stash and will soon begin casting more and more bullets for rifles and handguns.
    Tennessee

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    Well I lack talent with that said going to try and get my wife"s custom 338-06 finished (not me) it's in Idaho... The French walnut we have for it is something else... Also need to get my P17 in a 300 weatherby finished as well, 26 inch Douglas barrel, p17 made by Winchester, Duane Wiebe bottom metal, timney trigger and some more french walnut that my buddy found for me ...

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    Default Why not a Mdl 30?

    Just curious- since cost is apparently not an object why do you chose a P17 military action over a Mdl 30? Decades ago in high school and college we used 1917s for the economy factor- a lot of work but we could do most of the stuff ourselves. Herter's supplied cheap stocks for both the issue and straightened trigger guards and once you lopped the ears off you didn't need to forge the bolt and get a low scope safety like 03s.

    I say this owning both a number of P17 converstions and Mdl 30s. No matter what you do to a P17 the Mdl 30s are just nicer actions. The mauser like guide rib they added to the bolt on the last 30s and the 720s was the final improvement that really enchanced bolt smoothness.

    A similar question involves using military 98 actions instead of FN commericals but that is another subject.

    Again - just curious - no jugement or anything else intended, implied etc.


    Quote Originally Posted by 323 View Post
    Well I lack talent with that said going to try and get my wife"s custom 338-06 finished (not me) it's in Idaho... The French walnut we have for it is something else... Also need to get my P17 in a 300 weatherby finished as well, 26 inch Douglas barrel, p17 made by Winchester, Duane Wiebe bottom metal, timney trigger and some more french walnut that my buddy found for me ...
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Well for one I picked the barreled action up pretty cheap I think. Also the model 30 are getting hard to find and kills me to strip one apart. As for an fn action what's the point of a custom rifle??? The fn action you will still have to put a model 70'safety on it, a timney trigger, hinged floor plate (I think the fn didn't cone with hinged floor plate) besides I bought the vz24 for 125 bucks versus an fn what 300-400-500 bucks...

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    I think there is a general feeling of apathy or depression all across the land right now that your seeing reflected here. We gun people have been trudging through the mire for years now, then the last 3 years have been, well . . . Hellish. Now most are in weighting mode, donít know what to plan on/for, so projects are few and far between right now. I donít think we Alaskans have at all lost our self sufficient DIY spirit, we are just in limbo until we know in what direction to turn our attention.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    It seems there's been a generational shift all across the country that has moved into Alaska as well. Folks just aren't making things themselves any more. "Why go to the trouble when you can buy it?"
    The creeping rot of socialism, people no longer find joy in thinking, they want someone to do the thinking for them.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

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    Well, my gun related project today isn't really about a firearm. My son and I have been working on new covered 11 x 70' building (room for 14 new benches that we'll build over the winter) for our 200 yard range at Upper Susitna Shooters. We poured the concrete a month or so ago and I finally have time to work on it. Of course it's snowing/raining out so I had to come inside and warm up with some lunch. Back to it in a 1/2 hour or so.

    I've shot more this summer than any summer I have in the last 15 yrs. 3000 rounds of practice with my XDm 40 alone. Took a class from Jason Falla (Redback 1) a couple weeks ago and that really helped my shooting.

    I've been thinking of building an M4 sized civilian carbine, but every time I decide to do it I realize that I can buy a Colt 6920 for the same price as piecing together a comparable quality firearm from parts. At that point I don't call it non-self sufficient, I call it practical.
    Bunny Boots and Bearcats: Utility Sled Mayhem

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    You can smith on a Glock? Model airplane glue and tin snips? They are plastic and tin ya know. That being said my Glock 22 hangs on my side most of the time and I trust it more than any other firearm I own and it's still as ugly as the day I got it!

    I have a project just around the corner.... I'll start a thread on it!

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    Well, according to the USPS my ZKK-602 was delivered to Jim Brockman on the 17th. He's going to true the action, pillar-bed and float the barrel after re-chambering .375 H&H to .375 Weatherby using the following reamer I had made at PT&G.

    The following changes:
    Neck diameter: 0.405" to 0.401", which is 0.001" over the neck diameter of two boxes of original 1958 .375 Weatherby cartridges.
    Cartridge case mouth to free-bore: 0.0145" to 0.010".
    Free-bore diameter: 0.376" to 0.3754".
    Free-bore length: 0.735" to 0.125".
    Throat (length of entry into the rifling): 0.261" to 0.100"
    Angle of rifling entry: 1*-19-0 to 1*-30.

    I am tightening up the overall chamber and reducing that ridiculous 1-inch free-flight down to 0.225". With the magazine length of the ZKK, I can load even 350 grain bullets easily.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

    Better living through chemistry (I'm a chemist)

    You can piddle with the puppies, or run with the wolves...

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    Well, speaking of gun stuff, I picked up a 416Rem in a 17 Enfield and after just a few shots the action is trying to escape out the back of the stock. Will a couple of cross bolts stop this or is more needed? I will be doing the work myself. I also grew up either making what you need or at worst buying a used beater and fixing it yourself. When I got the gun, it had been rebarreled, chambered, dehorned and scope bases attached. No feed rail work had been done and it would neither feed from the mag nor eject. So far with slow and careful grinding ( and no experience) I have managed to get it to eject and feed from the right side of the magazine but not the left yet. A little more grinding and I think I'll get it. Is there anything other than cross bolts that will help keep the action from plowing it's way out of the stock? Got to get a scope with a little more eye relief as well cause it's really hard to hold steady when the scope is using your head as a recoil buffer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    It seems there's been a generational shift all across the country that has moved into Alaska as well. Folks just aren't making things themselves any more. "Why go to the trouble when you can buy it?"
    I agree and have seen this idea on other threads, industrialization has reached the point where DIY just seems less practical. But if there's a generational shift in progress, then I ask: What are we doing (beyond our own families) to welcome the next generation into our ways? Have we opened the door? Who are we not yet reaching?

    and craftsmen of every sort were within easy reach, and usually willing to foster interested beginners.
    Seems like a GOOD idea to turn some beginner threads into tutorial stickies, for those young folks with an interest but with absolutely NO background. In this more disconnected society, fewer youth learn from their families, so I think we need to expect many to show up in their teens and 20s with no prior mentorship and no idea how to find or approach someone willing to foster their learning.

    (Although from an earlier generation, I speak from experience. Due to gender stereotypes I was unable to find a mentor, so what little I know about reloading or smithing is mostly self-taught. Also makes it sort of hard to discuss here, since I never learned the words for some of the things I've built.)

    Yeah, I'm in full rebellion against the current trend, and it feels darned good, even if perty lonely.
    Lonely, but not alone. Ahead of the curve. In the trough before the next wave arrives.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    I think there is a general feeling of apathy or depression all across the land right now that your seeing reflected here. ... Now most are in weighting mode, donít know what to plan on/for, ... we are just in limbo until we know in what direction to turn our attention.
    True, we don't know what's coming, but if I understood Murphy's point, we don't need to wait, we can get out in front of the changes, by deciding what we want to create! The old "build it and they will come" idea.

    Besides, if we wait until we're told what's next, we probably won't like it ...

    Quote Originally Posted by AKDoug View Post
    I've been thinking of building an M4 sized civilian carbine, but every time I decide to do it I realize that I can buy a Colt 6920 for the same price as piecing together a comparable quality firearm from parts. At that point I don't call it non-self sufficient, I call it practical.
    I wonder how to "value" the experience of building the thing yourself, even when it's more expensive than industrial efficiency can provide it, which has made DIY seem impractical? In other words, how much more is it worth paying for the satisfaction that comes from doing it yourself?
    Inspiration is simply the momentary cessation of stupidity.

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    Their are currently 6 Model 30's for sale on Gunsinternational. All are in their original chambering of 30-06. Prices range from 1195 to 1450. The conditions of these rifles would make them worth about 400 to 500 at best based on Blue Book values. Even if cost were no object, no one wants to be a sucker and pay 1400 for a 400 rifle. Would like to buy a decent Model 30 but I won't pay over Blue Book. The Model 720 is my dream gun. Have never seen one and probably never will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    Is it winter in Alaska already?

    What has happened to the discussions about guns? Is it all too much to ponder to come up with a good subject that is about guns and not about the host of a TV show or just links to u-tube or other more interesting forums?

    Where has this forum gone?

    How about some interesting do it your self gunsmithing, handloading, or upgrade projects. The G20 thread......how to up grade the 10 MM, thats was good. I even got my G20 out and upgraded a few parts. Cast bullets in an AR.....another good subject. And a handloading thread that isn't just hey where can I buy a Lee Factory crimp die? You know something with some meat in it.

    It seems this forum is used so much as just an where can I go to get this done rather than telling us how you did it.

    I thought Alaskan were self sufficient, did all that needs done when the need arrises. Is it not that way anymore?

    I've withdrawn from the day to to activities here because I've had more pressing projects but would like to get back to posting about some of the things I've been working on. I did get a little tired of the orchestrated effort to discredit my work but I guess that's to be expected from some.

    Let's see in the past year I've regained my Master classification in Bullseye pistol, NRA action pistol (Bianchi Cup), and USPSA/IPSC.....Other than that my pistol skills have sagged. I have made progress on my range but sadly still not complete. I've conducted a few classes and sponsored a couple shoots at my place. Oh yeah, I shot a Buffalo and Eland with my 416 and a Sable with the 375. I am getting some practice at Glock-smithing and have found the gun to be interesting but still cheap and ugly.....but very reliable.

    My shooting range is located an hour south of Sierra Bullets & Starline Brass. I am 45 minutes north of the Fiocchi Ammo manufacturing facility and the nice, new indoor shooting range called The Sounds Of Freedom, located in Ozark Missouri. Hodgdon's Powder is about three hours drive away so I'm somewhat centrally located here and don't have logistic problems for components or ammo. UPS, FEDEX and the U.S. Mail deliver to my door quite often.

    So much for the mundane of this world......What's new in the gun community today. Any new models, any old models worth talking about?

    Waaaaaa. Not to be a jerk about it, but if you are basing your opinions on what is posted here, you are missing life. The shooting range bays are still packed. Guys and girls are shooting everything from old Enfields and Mausers to big bore dangerous game guns to the latest black gun rifle/pistol stuff that I've only seen in magazine articles. Alaskans can't get half the reloading stuff you can in the outside, so I don't know what you're talking about.

    Having lived all over the place, Alaska has a huge and varied gun culture that is alive and well. Maybe not a lot of benchrest shooting competitions, but plenty of real world shooting. Don't sweat it.

    New stuff? I've seen two of these at the range:

    http://hamptonroads.com/node/343981

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    Also not all alaskans post here either, it is the same old crew... I know alot of shooters that have not heard of this site. Heck Phil shoemaker doesn't even come to this site. He hangs out over on accurate reloading, over there it free for all sometimes and you have to do something pretty drastic to get the boot or a thread locked up. I think that's why people hesitate to post sometimes...

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    Lessee,....just about finished with a 1-10 twist 24" .220 Swift, with the intention of doing some "heavy" bullet/extended range experimenting for with coyotes and other vermin in mind.
    Picked up another M77 Mk II in .257 Roberts, and I finally got a Ruger that I won't have to fiddle with to get it to shoot. My experience with 'em has been abysmal, and probably NOT the norm.
    Dad passed away this spring, and Mom let me have his old 6" S&W Highway Patrolman, and an unfired, new in 1978, Winchester M94 Big Bore, and two boxes of factory ammunition. I'd already received five hundred pieces of Starline brass for the thing, and we didn't get any loading or shooting done with it before......
    Found an M1903A4 "sniper's" rifle in a used rack, rebarreled it, rechambered it with a pull-through reamer, installed a Weaver K2.5 in vintage Redfield rings and original base, and put it all into a new, Fulton Armory C type stock. Took it out and put it over the bags at a hundred yards, with Frankford Arsenal 1959 National Match, with 173 gr. BT's, and put five rounds well under a half inch on paper.
    What else to mention? Well, the boy, still living in Anchorage picked up a stainless MKII 77 in .338 the other day for a hunnert bucks with a bulge about an inch in from the muzzle, so he'll be bopping it back and recrowning, unless it shoots well without it.
    Have managed to put five AR's together for the boys and friends. Not really that interesting anymore, but fun to shoot.
    I'm waiting on a Garand from CMP to fiddle with, want to try my hand at rebarreling, and bedding and trigger work.
    So what's new in Missouri? Still plinking away with that .38-55?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    Well, speaking of gun stuff, I picked up a 416Rem in a 17 Enfield and after just a few shots the action is trying to escape out the back of the stock. Will a couple of cross bolts stop this or is more needed? I will be doing the work myself. I also grew up either making what you need or at worst buying a used beater and fixing it yourself. When I got the gun, it had been rebarreled, chambered, dehorned and scope bases attached. No feed rail work had been done and it would neither feed from the mag nor eject. So far with slow and careful grinding ( and no experience) I have managed to get it to eject and feed from the right side of the magazine but not the left yet. A little more grinding and I think I'll get it. Is there anything other than cross bolts that will help keep the action from plowing it's way out of the stock? Got to get a scope with a little more eye relief as well cause it's really hard to hold steady when the scope is using your head as a recoil buffer.
    No. Ideally you could have an additional recoil lug under the barrel, barring that, you need to bed the action. Instead of removing wood and drilling holes to weaken the stock, bed screws across the grain to keep the wood from splitting. Also, look over the action recesses carefully to make sure the metal is not contacting the wood. If there is contact, every time you pull the trigger, the action is acting like a wedge to split the stock. I use Acraglas with stainless steel powder mixed in to greatly increase the strength. Many people prefer Marine-Tex, but I find mixing it fussy.
    You can also drill a hole through the wrist down into the body of the butt, then fill the hole carefully using a syringe and tubing, once about 3/4 full, insert a threaded rod that has been carefully covered with reinforced epoxy. It helps to cut a slot into the end of the rod so you can drive it with a drill-motor. Once the rod has bottomed out, wait 'till the epoxy has set (give it at least 24-hours), then cut and trim with a Dremel.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

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    You can piddle with the puppies, or run with the wolves...

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    Thanks Nitroman. I think I will see if I can't make a deeper recoil lug as the existing one is very short and doesn't have a lot of rear surface to push on. It's already bedded but it's a poor job so I'll redo that as well plus a couple of cross bolts. I also like the idea of a thread rod epoxied into the butt and fit against the back of the tang. I also have a 358 Norma in a 14 enfield that is doing the same thing so it looks like I got a couple of winter projects.

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    I have managed to keep my .500 from splitting, it had actually started to crack, but so far has been stable and held up well. It is on the P-14.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

    Better living through chemistry (I'm a chemist)

    You can piddle with the puppies, or run with the wolves...

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