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Thread: Has anyone considered?

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    Default Has anyone considered?

    Just wondering....is anyone using (or considered) a Charter Arms 2.5" 44 Spl as a "better than nothing" critter protection. I know it is not a 44 Mag but a 250 gr Keith bullet at 750-800 fps is a pretty formadable chunk of lead...even if you only have 5 of them in the gun.

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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    Personally I find I have a hard time shooting a snubbie with proficient accuracy, and I've tried. The shortest barrel I seem to be able to handlewith some proficiency is a 4" tube, and hence I'd consider the Taurus tracker. I figure if I have to wait until a bear is on top of me to be able to hit the vitals, it's a little too late. Hence there is a point at which I won't trade packability for shootability.

    As to the 44 sp, with the right loads I figure it'll be somewhere North of barely adequate, but quite a bit South of inspiring confidence.
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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    I hear the Charters are better now but they would have to be to concider it.We know the 45acp will work so a 44spec. should if all goes right.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Just finished watching a you tube about two guys in Portage who DLP a griz. They pumped six 12 ga at it, as close as two feet, to stop the charge. Then put six more into to it to kill the bear, at least that seems to be what the narrative that goes with the pictures says. Makes me wonder about my 500. Guess that if they aren't wound up before you start shooting a griz would be much easier to kill. That said something, anything is better than nothing. Just my nickels worth.

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    I've considered it, but not the Snubbie. They make Target Models with a longer barrel. 4" and 5"

    http://charterfirearms.com/products/...dog_74440.html

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    I've owned two of the Charter Arms snubbie 44 specials. Both seemed to wear out too soon. They didn't take even moderate loads very well. Maybe they are better now. I'd say the now discontinued S&W 696, five shot 44 special is a very good pocket gun and I find it much more gun than any Charter Arms gun. But the idea of a 44 special in a small package is a very good idea and a useful gun to carry in the woods or wilderness and for social occasions. A long useful list of factory loads are available for it and of course we can hand load to expand that. It is one of my favorite calibers and I find it very useful. I don't have much trouble hitting with the short barrels but I'll say 3" is short enough.
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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Might look at the Taurus mod.415 in 41mag.Thing is for the price of the Charter or Taurus you can but a used Ruger 45colt or 44mag and have much more gun for the money
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    My experience of CA is that they are good for one thing..............Halibut. That is about as much as I trust them to save my life. Caliber irrelevant I just would not use one for any form of SD. I am no gun snob, I own a couple of Taurus, Rossi and a few other bargain guns. I would trust a Taurus way before trusting a CA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    I've owned two of the Charter Arms snubbie 44 specials. Both seemed to wear out too soon. They didn't take even moderate loads very well. Maybe they are better now. I'd say the now discontinued S&W 696, five shot 44 special is a very good pocket gun and I find it much more gun than any Charter Arms gun. But the idea of a 44 special in a small package is a very good idea and a useful gun to carry in the woods or wilderness and for social occasions. A long useful list of factory loads are available for it and of course we can hand load to expand that. It is one of my favorite calibers and I find it very useful. I don't have much trouble hitting with the short barrels but I'll say 3" is short enough.
    Just read that story. Now that makes the Kel-Tec KSG (twin mag tube shotgun) a much more attractive AK bird gun. Wonder how the troopers would deal with one mag tube of 7 slugs and the other mag plugged for 3 birdshot rounds?

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    I have sorta the same opinion of the CA which is why I've never owned one. If you can believe the G&A write-up, which I don't, the new SS Pug in 3" is supposed to be a better gun. I like the 44 special too and I shoot them in my 1894 44 mag a lot. Elmer was right...great round!!

    I still think the primary weapon should be something like a 375 H&H carbine or a 45-70, or a 450 Marlin or a 444 Marlin or whatever but NOT a shotgun...like the old saying...."better living thru firepower". I bought an airplane off the widow of a fellow who tried to stop a little sow with an 870 and Brennike slugs. Bear died but not before she grabbed the guy by the leg and he bled out right on the spot. Heavy, hard slow moving lead is the answer in IMHO...that's why I was looking at the CA in 44 Spl.

    I used to carry a Sako carbine in 375 H&H but too many times it got left on the bank or near by while fly fishing or doing something else....still looking for the perfect back-up.

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    I don't care for the Charter products based on past experience...maybe they're better now. Maybe not.

    I did have a S&W 696 and one of the very similar Taurus models- 5 shot .44 Spec on an L Frame. Liked it a lot and sold both in a fit of regrettable stupidity.

    I wouldn't think the 44 Spec would make a very good bear gun, despite it and similar rounds working in the past- better than a sharp stick and a stern glance though. I'd probably prefer 180gr HC in a hot loaded .357 in a similar sized package and there are scads of them floating around- but in truth neither is very inspiring.

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    I haven't poked a bear with a 44 Special, and I don't know of anyone who has. Results will have to go into the speculation bin sitting on the floor next to my desk. I've popped a dozen or so deer out to 50 yards with 44 Special and 45 Colt and the kind of loads you describe from 4" Smiths and Rugers, and was impressed. I never recovered a bullet, but all were broadside shots, so it doesn't add much to speculation about bears. I will say that the combo was so accurate and easy to shoot from those guns, I could certainly give a bear a heck of a headache even if it didn't kill him outright.

    I've owned two of the Charter Arms Bulldogs in 44 Special, and shot both to pieces in short order using factory ammo and equivalent handloads, roughly 700-800 fps with 240 grain bullets. We're talking around 1500 shots with one and 2500 shots with the other. Two things I learned from those guns:

    1. You better be very well practiced to control the recoil and shoot accurately with those loads in such a light gun.

    2. You're going to wear out the gun before you get that good with it.

    If Charter Arms has improved quality enough to hold up to thousands of rounds, you might be in business. But you'll still have to invest the thousands of rounds to get good with it.

    That's all academic. I feel I was burned by the company's shoddy product back in the day, and I won't go back today on the promise that they might be better.

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    I'd go with Hodgeman here on a hot loaded 357 vs a hot (medium in real terms) 44Sp. A Ruger SP101 3.25" is as compact as you can get, but still built like a tank. I had mine loaded up with these puppies http://www.pennbullets.com/38/38-caliber.html and a good dose of H110 and felt pretty confident in their close range penetration. But a 4" taurus Tracker in 44Mag would be a better answer, slim, light and easily packable, even concealable and actually one of the most enjoyable 44M I have fired due to the porting - only issue being that you would max out at 300Gr bullets for Magnum loads due to cylinder length.
    Bottom line from me (and it seems most others) is that I would not want to trust my life to a CA, irrespective of reports that they are now better, I would not want to be one of the Beta testers with a Bruin trying to rip me apart! That's me being a fan of cheap and cheerful guns, but for recreational use only, not for SD.

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    I tend to agree with the consideration that a heavy HC in a 357 may be better medicine for furry assailants however, that would take a strong 357 with a barrel longer than 3". In reality if you can carry a 3" 44 special, even five shot, then you can carry the same gun in a 4" or 5". CA Bulldogs aside, the limited quantity of 44 special S&W revolvers, such as the 4" M24, can be loaded to some significant improvement in factory ammo. The compact 696 is the only candidate (unless taurus makes a good competitor) in the small 44 special category and it is 3" and five shots. Designed more for social events than wilderness treks but it would be a helluva lot better than an S&W 500 back in the truck. I like the 696. It would not be my choice for carry where there are quadrupeds with tooth and claw behind every bush. I have a well made strong side holster for mine and it fits snug against my rump under a light jacket or shirt and is comforting in certain parts of town but I'd really rather have a real gun in good leather when big fuzzy comes calling in a hurry.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Good question, Lowrider:

    After hearing from these guys, including Murph, and BB:

    I reckon I'll just keep on packin my Three Five Seven, and Fordy Four.

    Like you, I was just thinkin about something that would go along, even when I hadda rifle with me.

    I can't say that my revolvers are too heavy, though. I don't reely mind packin a gun I like, and like to shoot.

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    Yip....I'm with you...CA seems to suck. My 4 5/8" BH in 45 LC seems to be half the load of my 5" SBH but that is better than the Pug. I would carry the new 20 watt, 780 nanometer pulse laser if they could just get the batteries under 50 lbs!!

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    I often carry a SP 101 with 200gr DT ammo and don't worry about it unless the pile is steaming then I wish I grabed the 454 or 45/70
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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