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Thread: Powered canoes and Jim Wilde ....

  1. #1
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    Default Powered canoes and Jim Wilde ....

    In light of the Jim Wilde/NPS issue and verdict, do you powered canoe/freighter canoe enthusiasts register your boats and display the reg. numbers on your boat?

    I never registered my Grumman 19'er/Yamaha in the decade I used it on the rivers. However, seeing the maelstrom of legal B.S. that befell Jim Wilde, I did this year. And I carried a first aid kit and fire extinguisher, as well as my normal PFDs. Our state is full of over officious LEOs of many stripes. I'd just as soon not give them an excuse to f*** with me or my boat. And those reg. numbers prominently displayed may reduce the chance of them doing so.

    Just MHO.

  2. #2

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    Well, my numbers are out of date (Penobscot and Honda 2). Sheesh, you have a point.

  3. #3

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    It`s been the law for a long, long time that a boat over 16` with a gas motor requires registration and safety gear...I don`t see a problem with having those small items on board.


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    Moderator Alaskacanoe's Avatar
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    Old Jim spent $40,000 fighting those misdemeaners and lost all but one of them..
    He was not eligible for a jury trial,,, he got a raw deal having a judge do the deciding,,, imho
    If it had been a jury trial the fed pros would have dropped the case,,
    anyway,,, one of the fines for the boat not registered was only $50.00
    and he admitted that one,,,
    I know without any shadow of a doubt they will pinch you here on the kenai if you run a motor on any craft with a motor and the craft does not have the stickers//
    ie,,, my 12 ft raft...
    its a pain,, and I dont see any representation of the fee of registration,, but you best do it..
    just register if you ever think you will want to use a motor..
    When you come to a fork in the trail, take it!

    Rentals for Canoes, Kayaks, Rafts, boats serving the Kenai canoe trail system and the Kenai river for over 15 years. www.alaskacanoetrips.com

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    Yep, all boats are current. Pretty cheap to do with a boat that size and it avoids any legal possibilities.

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    Yikes....I started running my HB in 2001 with an 8, then I went to a twenty in about 2003. This thread got me thinking about Canadian law. Seems, since 2001 we are supposed to have any recreational boat with over 10HP registered. Who knew? Never even thought about thinking about it. Seems ridiculous.

    Guess I'll figure out how to register for next year.

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    Well, I went down and registered the Esquif Cargo before I Put it in the water in June. I figured why pay the fine and then the registration....be cheaper just to register....

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    Quote Originally Posted by North61 View Post
    Seems, since 2001 we are supposed to have any recreational boat with over 10HP registered. Who knew?
    I believe it is any powered craft of any HP.

    I register mine.

    The way I read the regs also, I need (and do have & carry) a flare gun, and a noisemaking device (air horn or whistle, etc.), in addition to PFDs of course. Sometimes I bring my throw-able ring too, but I'm pretty sure I don't need to carry that, legally. Any one know? A better question is why is this list of must haves for powerboating not ingrained in all of us? (I count myself as guilty of this too btw.)

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    Just a note ... North61 lives in Yukon, and Canadian registration rules differ from our's in Alaska.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    Just a note ... North61 lives in Yukon, and Canadian registration rules differ from our's in Alaska.
    Oops, my bad, good catch. Sorry North.

    Though I still wonder why we don't all (me included) know off the top of our head what the short list is to bring on any power-boat experience in Alaska.

    I know what's legal re: hunting. Is that because I've taken the mandatory Hunter Safety course? Probably.

    I'm just sayin'.

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    What's this about mandatory hunter's safely course? I have one of the permanent Alaska hunting/fishing trapping licenses and have never been required to take a HS course. I assume that was a requirement for federally controlled or military base lands. Am I correct?

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    Default this isn't about you, kingfisherktn :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    What's this about mandatory hunter's safely course? I have one of the permanent Alaska hunting/fishing trapping licenses and have never been required to take a HS course. I assume that was a requirement for federally controlled or military base lands. Am I correct?
    No, it just means that you're older than dirt (don't take offense; so am I; I attended to see what they were teaching my kid) and thusly you're presumed to know all that stuff.

    Rick, sorry about the kingfisherktn subject line. But I know he constantly searches this forum for the phrase "older than dirt" and whenever it appears, he responds.

    Oops, almost forgot the smilely.

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    What are the items required to be in your boat? (Perhaps I should read the regs.) Other than PFDs, fire extinguisher and first aid kit, what gear is mandatory? I'm a bit surprised a flare gun would be required other than on salt water.

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    Default OK, I'll volunteer to go look up the short list of small powerboating requirements

    SOA deems that this vital info be locked into a PDF file containing lots of mere-advice coupled with hard laws (argh), so you'll have to turn to page 5 of this humungous file to see the short list:

    http://dnr.alaska.gov/parks/boating/...book082010.pdf

    There are no flares on that list; I overpack. And since I'm a canoe, like I thought, I don't need my throwable ring by law.

    imo, the state ought to make a little tiny web page containing just the short list of actual requirements like law......

    This sort of over-production reminds me of the DMV motorcycle test where they ask whether orange vests or white helmets will get you better noticed. (I'm not kidding about this.) The correct answer (according me, not them) is: Who cares? You don't need either to be legal, and that's what the DMV testing is supposed to be all about.

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    All the items on the list are nice to have but they left off toilet paper...a "must have" on my boat!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowrider View Post
    All the items on the list are nice to have but they left off toilet paper...a "must have" on my boat!!
    That's funny. The one thing I start planning for the earliest with regards to my hunting/camping trips is the TP. I try to salvage the rolls from the house when they are down to about 1/4-1/3 the original size, perfect for slipping in a sandwich bag that I can carry in my backpack or pants pocket while out hiking around instead of only having a full roll that is bulky.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    What's this about mandatory hunter's safely course? I have one of the permanent Alaska hunting/fishing trapping licenses and have never been required to take a HS course. I assume that was a requirement for federally controlled or military base lands. Am I correct?
    I believe the Hunting Regs state that anyone born after 1986 are required to take the HS course to hunt in certain GMU's ... Like 14 and 13... actually I believe you can take the course on-line, but then you have to schedule some field time with an instructor...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    What are the items required to be in your boat? (Perhaps I should read the regs.) Other than PFDs, fire extinguisher and first aid kit, what gear is mandatory? I'm a bit surprised a flare gun would be required other than on salt water.
    This all started with the Small boat safety act of 1971... All States were supposeds to initiate the law/act... However, any state choosing not to enforce it, the USCG would be required to .. Alaska and one New England state decided to let the USCG enforce itit.. and they did up until about 2000 or 01 (??) Thus the confusion when the State was required to enforce it...

    Most good boat shops have a laminated card you can get that outlines this.. The USCG ,may even have them available, not sure..

    To answer the question......

    It all depends on the size or your boat..
    (class A) less than 16ft
    Class 1 over 16 but less than 26
    Class 2 over 26 but less than 40
    Class 3 over 40 but less than 65

    Class A and Class 1 require a PFD for each passenger
    Class 1, 2 and 3 also require a class IV (throwable)
    Class A and 1 require 1 B-1 Fire extinguisher
    Class 2 and 3 the fire extinguisher things gets a little complicated
    Boats up to the 39.4 ft (12 M) require a whistle or sound making device audible for 1/2 mile
    Boats up to 39.4 ft (12M) require a Bell or any device capable of making a sound signal
    ( believe boats under 12M are exempt from the Bell thing... but I don't have anything current on that)
    Backfire flame arrestor on all inboard engines installed after 25 April 1940
    visual Distress signals
    class A only when operating at night
    Class 1,2 and 3 require an approved kit

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    Most of the requirements seem reasonable but the goal of the overly officious rangers on the River is to exercise their authority and there are very few folks for them to impress up there.

    In 1984 they stopped me in my freight canoe and we got along fine but asked me to not go ashore as my Vibram soles were "overly aggressive".

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    In January 1986 I was ordained as an AK Hunter Safety Instructor and one of the speakers during the class was a fish and game officer. He spoke for an hour or so and a good half of that was spent on the importance of catch and release methods, proper release methods, how to bend or remove barbs on your flies and using then new circle hooks for halibut and other fishing related topics. The chief instructor thanks him for his presentation and after he left the class spent the next period of time trying to figure out how it related to hunter safety. I'm sure the officer meant well but he did not do anything to raise the staturre of his orgainization in our eyes. I'd like to believe the officers are just trying to do their job but sometimes their efforts get derailed!!

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