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Thread: Feeding/jamming issue in brand new gun...

  1. #1
    Member danattherock's Avatar
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    Default Feeding/jamming issue in brand new gun...

    Got the wife a PX4 compact 9 mm for our wedding anniversary. She is super excited to have her first semi auto.

    Took her to the range today, 2nd round jammed##&$(@@ *#&&#&7#7


    Shot 30 rounds of ammo (PMC 115 gr fmj) and 3-4 times per mag, ammo failed to feed. Often a stovepipe, but mostly didn't come up from the magazine. Fired round would eject, but the round from the mag wouldn't feed all the way. Point being, the bullet end of the round would not make it up into the throat of the barrel. It would often be pointing up, perhaps at 45+ degree angle, but not going into the chamber. At times, we would have that along with a stove pipe from the spent round.


    I took gun home, cleaned it, double checked manual on assembly, got 100 rounds of Federal 115 gr fmj from Walmart and went back to range just now. I shot 60 rounds with no jamming. Wife still had sporadic jamming (2-3 jams per 40 rounds). I am thinking she was limpwristing likely and we will focus on this. Was doing so then ran out of the Federal ammo. Still trying to decide what to do, if anything. Send to Beretta? Change springs? Keep shooting and improve on wife's technique? Reason I wonder, should a gun be that sensitive to limp wristing? I was able to create a jammed case by holding EXTREMELY lightly. Makes me wonder if she had these few jams for this or another reason.


    After we used the 100 rounds of Federal ammo, tried to shoot the last 70 or so rounds of PMC. Got the same consistent jammings I spoke of above. Does this gun hate this ammo or what? Felt like all was well with Federal, then the gun is jamming left and right with the PMC. All I can find online suggest this is very unusual for the PX4. Did we get a lemon perhaps. Just not sure what course to take. Will clean gun now and run out and buy some more ammo and shoot first thing in the morning. Hate for such a sentimental gift to not work perfectly. Any suggestion here would be appreciated. I have shot guns for 25 years and own a dozen assorted semi automatics. Never dealt with anything like this before.




    -Dan

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    Member Phish Finder's Avatar
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    Send back to Beretta with a nice note.
    ><((((>.`..`.. ><((((>`..`.><((((>

    "People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they
    just like to pee a lot." --Capitol Brewery

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    Member Frostbitten's Avatar
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    Had a similar issue with my sons Reminton 597. Stovepiped every 3-4 rounds. I tried new clips and cleaning the heck out of it, but to no avail. The only ammo that gun will shoot without jamming is sub-sonic/match grade. Don't know why, but thats how it is.

  4. #4
    Member danattherock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phish Finder View Post
    Send back to Beretta with a nice note.


    VERY high on the might do list.

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    No gun guy here but I would guess that something is causing the slide to have too much resistance. I would check for any rough metal to metal. I am thinking that the rear travel is hanging so that the shorter casing ejects but is not going far enough to grab the next round. Slide rails or maybe see if you can find some slightly hotter loads. Could be the recoil spring is just stiff and will loosen up with rounds down the pipe too.

  6. #6
    Member danattherock's Avatar
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    My gut says recoil spring is too tight. Mix in some 115 grain ammo, not enough slide energy, FTF.

    Heading out now to buy some hotter ammo if I can find it. Perhaps the 115 gr is just not enough to reliably cycle this particular gun. However, for a gun touted for it's reliability, I find this hard to accept. Never seen a gun so ammo sensitive if this is the case. Trying everything I can before sending the gun into Beretta and the associated 3-5 week turn around time.

    Beretta recalled the guide rod and recoil spring in this gun a few months back, but when entered, our serial number suggest we are not effected. However, we are having the exact issue that prompted the recall. Talking to Dell computer service in India is easier than getting a hold of someone on the phone at Beretta.

    Tried searching online to find a source for lighter recoil springs, but can't find jack for the PX4 compact, which is a captured rod. Would try a new one in a split second at this point. Finding something to order is proving hard. And for that matter, I don't know the strength of the current factory recoil spring. Pissing in the wind it seems.



    -Dan

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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    Please try these four things:
    1 Remove the steel upper from the polymer lower.
    2. Observe the slide rails on both for any rough spots.
    3. Polish if needed
    4. Lubricate with a slide grease (like tetra)

    1 observe the small feed ramp for any rough spots
    2. polish if necessary

    1. Purchase some 124 grain +p gold dot
    2. Fire at least 100 rounds of this and record the amount of malfunctions you have.

    1. observe the rotary locking-barrel surfaces
    2. Religiously clean these areas and apply a slight amount of gun grease (like tetra) to the rotating lock-up areas.

    Sometimes it takes a while to brake a pistol in, and the heavier recoiling 9mm might help this. For home defense, the hollopoints (and other tactical loads) are supposed to stop in the human target (or slow down blowing out the target fully expanded with minimal velocity) and safely prevent over penetration that occurs with FMJ's. If the pistol doesn't function well with a high quality tactical load, that's when I would take further action.

  8. #8
    Member danattherock's Avatar
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    Thanks Mainer. All the above was done this afternoon between firing first and second time at range. I am also leaving the slide locked open overnight to train the recoil spring a bit.

    Just got in from Walmart and bought 100 rounds of Winchester 147 gr hollow point self defense rounds. Should work the action a good bit more than the 115 grain fmj stuff earlier. The Federal had a bit more pop than the PMC and worked much better although they both were 115 grain fmj. A bit more powder perhaps in the Federal rounds.

    Assuming hotter ammo runs good, I am set. Will be setting up my Dillion 550B next week and rolling my own. Also, this hotter ammo is what the gun was bought for, home defense. In fact, was trying to get her a 40 S&W in this gun, but Beretta only makes the compact size of the PX4 in 9mm. If shooting 140 grain semi-hot custom loads at the range is all that it takes to reliably cycle this action, I will be happier than a queer in a pecker tree.



    -Dan

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    Premium Member MarineHawk's Avatar
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    You bought an Italian-manufactured mass-produced firearm?They make good food and wine. And high-end cars and other things at times.

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    Member danattherock's Avatar
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    I will have a more firm opinion tomorrow, but...





















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    Premium Member MarineHawk's Avatar
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    I was just kidding.I hope you solve the problem soon.

  12. #12
    Member danattherock's Avatar
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    Unfortunately for me, I agree with you at this point.


    Perhaps tomorrow will be another day.


    Got 100 rounds of 147 grain to try.


    If problem continues, need to find a lighter recoil spring.


    If that don't work, sending it to Beretta.





    -Dan

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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    how'd it work out? does it function flawlessly with the heavier load?

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    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    Compact pistols are notorious for functioning like this. A recoil spring light enough to cycle PMC and the slide/frame gets battered to death by hot loaded self defense rounds. Heavy enough to prevent that and light loads stove pipe or the slide fails to retract fully and pick up the next round in the mag.

    I usually try to run a pistol at least 200 rounds to allow for break in before I try to tweak or send it back. I have had a couple compact 1911s that had to run 230gr+P hard ball or nothing at all.

  15. #15
    Member danattherock's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input Hodgeman. I appreciate it.




    Quote Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak View Post
    how'd it work out? does it function flawlessly with the heavier load?


    Yep.






    For anyone finding this down the road, here are threads where MANY other folks had the same problem with this same gun?


    http://www.berettaforum.net/vb/showt...&highlight=px4

    http://www.berettaforum.net/vb/showt...&highlight=px4



    Below is an image so you can quickly determine if you have the effected (recalled) spring....







    I have been reading for 2 days straight and the recoil spring is too tight. The recall Beretta issued earlier this year was supposed to fix this by changing the spring and guide rod. However, I am having the exact same issue with this gun. I think we had 15+ fail to feeds in the first 200 rounds using two different brands of ammo and three shooters, two of which are very experienced. I gave careful attention to all possible causes of the gun failing to feed. Limp wristing, while easy to suggest, is not the cause of the problems.

    The recoil spring is so tight the slide is not going back far enough to catch the next round (in the mag) on the follow through. This is also why the slide would not stay locked back upon firing the last round. The spring is too tight. Period. We (three people) have shot 300 rounds (three different types of ammo) in the gun in the last 24 hours. This gun does not well represent the dependability that Beretta is known for. The same reputation that led to the purchase of this gun in the first place.

    On a more positive note, we shot 100 rounds of 147 grain just now at the range and the gun was 100% reliable. I also noticed the slide locked back upon firing the last round each of the ten times (we shot ten 10 round magazines). So shooting higher power rounds is the solution for now, but my wife should not have to shoot hot loads just to make the gun work properly. I am happy though and will likely just load her ammo to similar specs. As time goes on, 400-600 rounds based on others folks with same issue, the gun should begin to work with less potent 115 gr practice ammo. A common suggestion from others was to leave the slide locked open for a few days to train the spring.

    The Beretta recall addressed this issue earlier this year. The fix was a different spring and guide rod. I do in fact have the new spring as evidenced by the flattened 3 coils in spring center. However, it is performing identical to how the guns effected by the recall did. Poorly. Ammo sensitive at best. Stovepipes, fail to feed, etc..

    Called the Beretta Customer service yesterday. Six or seven selections later (press one for ... press two for .....) I got transferred to my area service center. Told the guy there the issues and he was quite familiar. He gave me a phone number back to the Beretta Customer Service folks with a 4 digit extension. Called the lady three times and left messages but no return phone call. Might have been busy or perhaps jetted out of the office a bit early on Friday. Can't blame her for that. Will hope she is the person to give me some final clarification on how to get a lighter recoil spring. I have invested the time, money, ammo, and research. I know what the problem is. I just need someone to send me (or sell me) a friggin spring appropriate for this gun.



    -Dan

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    Quote Originally Posted by danattherock View Post
    On a more positive note, we shot 100 rounds of 147 grain just now at the range and the gun was 100% reliable. I also noticed the slide locked back upon firing the last round each of the ten times (we shot ten 10 round magazines). So shooting higher power rounds is the solution for now, but my wife should not have to shoot hot loads just to make the gun work properly.
    -Dan
    Unfortunately the nature of semi autos is they are usually very picky about ammo. Rarely can you have it both ways and be able to shoot both hot and mild loads with equal success. If you set up the spring for hot loads low power loads will not function correctly and if you set it up for mild loads then full power loads will cause the slide to slam the slide, potentially damaging it. Recoil springs are easy to replace, cheap, and can be purchased in many different pound weights so you can find the right combination.

    Heck, guys even swap out the springs on S&W 41's .22 to match the ammo they are shooting.
    Tennessee

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    Premium Member MarineHawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowwolfe View Post
    Unfortunately the nature of semi autos is they are usually very picky about ammo. Rarely can you have it both ways and be able to shoot both hot and mild loads with equal success. If you set up the spring for hot loads low power loads will not function correctly and if you set it up for mild loads then full power loads will cause the slide to slam the slide, potentially damaging it. Recoil springs are easy to replace, cheap, and can be purchased in many different pound weights so you can find the right combination.

    Heck, guys even swap out the springs on S&W 41's .22 to match the ammo they are shooting.
    My Glock 27 and my HK USPs seem to have solved that problem. They have two springs. One works until the round is ejected, and then the other one starts kicking in. That way, with light ammo, the round still ejects, and with hot ammo, you have the second spring kick in to prevent the slide from slamming hard. I think that is what the Gen-4 Glocks are supposed to do, and I know there are some reported problems (maybe they'll get the bugs out), but my 18-15 yr-old G27 and USPs both function flawlessly with a wide range of ammo.

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    Member stevelyn's Avatar
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    I wasn't aware of the spring problem, but it's seems likely.

    Most semi-auto pistol problems can usually be traced to three things.

    Out of spec ammo, defective magazines or some pistols just need a 500 rnd breaking-in period.
    Now what ?

  19. #19
    Member danattherock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowwolfe View Post
    Recoil springs are easy to replace, cheap, and can be purchased in many different pound weights so you can find the right combination.

    Normally. I have looked for 3 days and can't find a replacement spring for this particular gun (compact PX4). The only online vendor was Brownells and they don't have it in stock, not info on what type of spring which leads me to believe it is just a factory spec replacement. I will get a hold of the chic at Beretta Monday and see what they can do. For now, it is hot loads only as the 115 grain is useless in this gun.



    -Dan

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevelyn View Post
    I wasn't aware of the spring problem, but it's seems likely.

    Most semi-auto pistol problems can usually be traced to three things.

    Out of spec ammo, defective magazines or some pistols just need a 500 rnd breaking-in period.

    I suspect that is what we are dealing with here. I don't want a super weak spring, but the one in the gun is a monster. If a slightly weaker spring is available through Beretta, I will try it. However, it is doubtful such a spring exist or I would have found some mention of it or perhaps a way to buy it by now. I am fine with shooting a few hundred more rounds in the gun and it then reliably feeding. Assuming this is the case, no biggie. However, I don't want to continually have the wife shooting hot loads just to make a gun do what it should have been designed to do from the first round.



    -Dan

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