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Thread: Phantom's Hardcor bottom

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    Thumbs up Phantom's Hardcor bottom

    This past spring I purchased a new Phantom Sportjon and added their Hardcor bottom. I tested it for the first time a month ago on a moose hunt. The river we hunt has lots of rocks and is generally tough to run. It has a mix of boulder size rocks just under the water that don't make much of a ripple to white water rapids to riffles that require some sharp turns and shallow running. Overall I was extremely happy with the performance of the boat and especially the hardcor bottom. I hit hard about a half-dozen times and had many a hard "taps". The hard hits were really bad hits. The boat was loaded down and was going at a good clip. Twice we went completely out of the water. In the past I've taken out the bottom of several boats and jet foots on this same river. I expected the bottom of the boat to be really tore up with the hardcor peeled off or at the least some long dents. When I got it on the trailer and looked for the damage I was really surprised! I had a small section of harcor that had peeled off one runner but was only about 2" long. The rest of the boat was in great shape. It looked almost new! I could see where the big hit were but there was no damage to the hardcor or the bottom of the boat. I looked at it for 5 minutes in disbelief that there was no real damage. The hardcor worked better then advertized!! I was also very happy with the performance of the boat. Lots of power to pop up on step in tight spots and I was able to carry 3 guys and a moose in some tight shallow spots with no problem. This is my 6th river boat and by far the best I've owned. I'd recommend it to anyone that runs in shallow rocky rivers. Alaska River Runner

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    Next you have some time stopby silver streak boats in anchorage as ben k about the down side of hardcor. Be careful when it start to come apart from the bottom. To make this short story the guy was up on step and a piece came off. Which stoped the boat very quickly. There may be sum people om this site who know the what happened.

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    Do I give my friends advice? Jesus, no. They wouldn't take advice from me. Nobody should take advice from me. I haven't got a clue about anything..

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    Quote Originally Posted by akmike30 View Post
    Next you have some time stopby silver streak boats in anchorage as ben k about the down side of hardcor. Be careful when it start to come apart from the bottom. To make this short story the guy was up on step and a piece came off. Which stoped the boat very quickly. There may be sum people om this site who know the what happened.

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    Thanks for the information. So far the hardcor is holding up well. I'd like to hear from some others that have the hardcor bottom and hear what they think. My boat is put away for the winter so no more testing for me until next year.

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    Ya buddy!!! I will second that... I have the Hardkor on my boat as well. I have hit some rocks pretty hard and nothing showed up on the bottom of the boat. It is some tuff-stuff...."fishon"


    Quote Originally Posted by akriverrunner View Post
    This past spring I purchased a new Phantom Sportjon and added their Hardcor bottom. I tested it for the first time a month ago on a moose hunt. The river we hunt has lots of rocks and is generally tough to run. It has a mix of boulder size rocks just under the water that don't make much of a ripple to white water rapids to riffles that require some sharp turns and shallow running. Overall I was extremely happy with the performance of the boat and especially the hardcor bottom. I hit hard about a half-dozen times and had many a hard "taps". The hard hits were really bad hits. The boat was loaded down and was going at a good clip. Twice we went completely out of the water. In the past I've taken out the bottom of several boats and jet foots on this same river. I expected the bottom of the boat to be really tore up with the hardcor peeled off or at the least some long dents. When I got it on the trailer and looked for the damage I was really surprised! I had a small section of harcor that had peeled off one runner but was only about 2" long. The rest of the boat was in great shape. It looked almost new! I could see where the big hit were but there was no damage to the hardcor or the bottom of the boat. I looked at it for 5 minutes in disbelief that there was no real damage. The hardcor worked better then advertized!! I was also very happy with the performance of the boat. Lots of power to pop up on step in tight spots and I was able to carry 3 guys and a moose in some tight shallow spots with no problem. This is my 6th river boat and by far the best I've owned. I'd recommend it to anyone that runs in shallow rocky rivers. Alaska River Runner

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    Quote Originally Posted by akmike30 View Post
    Next you have some time stopby silver streak boats in anchorage as ben k about the down side of hardcor. Be careful when it start to come apart from the bottom. To make this short story the guy was up on step and a piece came off. Which stoped the boat very quickly. There may be sum people om this site who know the what happened.

    Sent from my Milestone X using Tapatalk
    Mike, of all of the Phantoms that Aztec has applied hardcore to the bottom, not a single one has had a "peeling" issue. There have been others that have tried other products which have had the product peel. There may even be some folks who have wrongly applied hardcore and had it peel...not sure. Aztec has throughly tested the product and has never had a peeling issue. Yes there's been gouging and chucks torn out from some sharp rocks but the product around these area has shown no indication that it has begun to peel away. I've seen a picture showing boat that had a product peeled off, but it was not one of Aztec's boats. It looked like a phantom but it wasn't one that had a product applied by Aztec. The photo was such poor quality it was impossible to make who manufactured the boat. Experience has proven that UHMW has a much great tendency to peel off then hardcore. Once a dented, the UHMW has a greater tendency to delaminate from the aluminum leaving a pocket. The pocket then can fill with water worsening the problem. Over the years of applying UHMW, there's been numerous accounts of the UHMW peeling. It's great stuff but it has it's drawbacks one which is it's extremely expensive to repair. The hardcore on the other hand can be repaired easily and any dents in the bottom can be pounded out with confidence that the hard core will still have full adhesion to the aluminum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Halibutgrove View Post
    The hardcore on the other hand can be repaired easily and any dents in the bottom can be pounded out with confidence that the hard core will still have full adhesion to the aluminum.
    I donít know anything about Hardcore. I do know about Aluminum, and if you dent aluminum or any metal the metal stretches and you can not un-stretches metal by hammering it back in place. I also do not understand how there would not be separation at the point of impact because both the aluminum and the Hardcore will stretch. The size and depth of the dent will determine the amount of separation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rutting Moose View Post
    I donít know anything about Hardcore. I do know about Aluminum, and if you dent aluminum or any metal the metal stretches and you can not un-stretches metal by hammering it back in place. I also do not understand how there would not be separation at the point of impact because both the aluminum and the Hardcore will stretch. The size and depth of the dent will determine the amount of separation.
    If you get a chance to swing by the shop stop in. We have cross section samples that show how the hardcore remains intact with the aluminum once bent and straighten and samples of UHMW that delaminates. The hardcore is pliable enough to bend with the aluminum and stretch is why it doesn't separate. In fact you can take a strip of aluminum coated hardcore and bend it back and forth. The aluminum will break before the hardcore.

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    I don't know much about aluminum or the hardcor material but I do know I took a lot of really hard hits and the botton looked almost like new. It peeled one small portion of the runner but everything else looked really good. There was also a small dimble near the stern from a rock hit but it was very minor. No signs of any separation so far. Riverrunner

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    akriverrunner i was just replying back to your post. and not to get into a debate with halibut again. Moose your correct. Halibut your blind as a bat if you could tell what a sjx looks like. yes it was a sjx with hardcor. which hit a rock put a dent in the bottom which was pounded back out. Then a couple trips later the hardcor came apart. IM NOT SAYING HARDCOR IS BAD.Just pointing out a down side to the hardcor. Not trying say your stuff was bad. but sjx and aztex do aply the hard cor the same way. you be judge.
    Do I give my friends advice? Jesus, no. They wouldn't take advice from me. Nobody should take advice from me. I haven't got a clue about anything..

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    Quote Originally Posted by akmike30 View Post
    akriverrunner i was just replying back to your post. and not to get into a debate with halibut again. Moose your correct. Halibut your blind as a bat if you could tell what a sjx looks like. yes it was a sjx with hardcor. which hit a rock put a dent in the bottom which was pounded back out. Then a couple trips later the hardcor came apart. IM NOT SAYING HARDCOR IS BAD.Just pointing out a down side to the hardcor. Not trying say your stuff was bad. but sjx and aztex do aply the hard cor the same way. you be judge.
    Mike, the photo I was sent was a poor quality photo which I couldn't distinguish whether it was an SJX or not. The SJX was a mirror copy of the Phantom in the beginning so it could have gone either way. If you say it was so be it. I just know for a fact it wasn't a Phantom and Aztec would have known about any peeling if it was one of their boats. To my knowledge SJX had never used hardcore and I doubt they had. If they did, how would you know that the product was applied in the same way? Your reference at Silver Streak confirmed the boat he saw wasn't a phantom and indicated the product was a glued on product and not a spray on product from what he recalled. There have only been about 7-8 Phantoms sprayed with Hardcore since they started using the product. None of them have had the product delaminate. If you think it will delaminate, stop by the shop. We have a sample there your welcome to pound on and straight back out. After hearing AKriverrunners first hand experience with the Hardcore, I'm convinced Aztec is leading the way in damage mitigation with the Hardcore product. AKriverrunner's previous boat was also a phantom with UHMW and he's tore the bottom out of many other brands so I believe him when he says it's better then anything he's previously used.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Halibutgrove View Post
    AKriverrunner's previous boat was also a phantom with UHMW and he's tore the bottom out of many other brands so I believe him when he says it's better then anything he's previously used.
    I applaud the crash test dummies that find their way back to their computer and give all members their results (obtained expensively) for free, potentially saving them many thousands of dollars. Heck, if I had more moola in a disposable account I'd volunteer to be one of those CTDs.

    Kudos, akriverrunner, and +1.

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    Is there a link to the Hardcor product? I have never heard of this hull coating before. Google search yields the usual x-rated material...

    M.

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    palasz: you can find some limited information on the phantomjetboat site.

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    so, this video is nice demonstrating HardKor product:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njsZW81_Aec

    If this stuff is so good why is everyone still using UHMW? Cost prohibitive or overkill?

    M.

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    Quote Originally Posted by palasz View Post
    so, this video is nice demonstrating HardKor product:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njsZW81_Aec

    If this stuff is so good why is everyone still using UHMW? Cost prohibitive or overkill?

    M.
    Since it's relatively new folks are waiting for reports like AKriverrunners. The cost is actually less then UHMW but it's still not cheap. $6450 option. One of the other great benefits is that it's easier to repair and can be done yourself rather then needing any specialized equipment. Don't expect your boat to be indestructible with Hardkor. Sharp rock can cut and tear chunks out just as with UHMW, but they can be filled in a repaired easily. There are two other boat manufactures starting to use the product besides Aztec. I'm sure more will follow.

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    Member AK Troutbum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by palasz View Post
    so, this video is nice demonstrating HardKor product:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njsZW81_Aec

    If this stuff is so good why is everyone still using UHMW? Cost prohibitive or overkill?

    M.
    That video is just like many other video's I've seen with boats running over gravel bars, etc. Running over a gravel bar with small river gravel like that usually does little more than scratch the bottom of the hull. I'd like to see them do a little more abusive stuff then show the bottom afterwards. Hitting/running over stuff and not showing the damage, or lack there of, proves nothing about the product. Just my opinion.

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    I guess it is some type of polyurea compound... looks like pretty cool stuff.

    http://www.polyurea.com/spps/ahpg.cfm?spgid=12

    I would also like to see bottom of boats after a couple years of abuse...maybe phantom will do another video for us.

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