Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: Halibut migrations

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,448

    Default Halibut migrations

    Just wondering if Halibut are migrational. I know they head to deep water to spawn but here is the question. If a Cook Inlet halibut heads out to spawn in the deep water do they return to CI the next year? Have any Homer Halibut Derby tags ever been recovered in Kodiak or Seward? Just wondering as that would play a role in Halibut management.

  2. #2

    Default

    Very interesting question. I've heard that a tagged homer halibut has been caught in Washington,but that was just dock talk, so I'm not sure how true it is.

    I know that halibut move, and certain sized halibut like certain areas. I'm not sure how far they move. We have large areas down by me offshore that are just choked with 9-14lb halibut, with very few 15-50lb halibut. It's always been like that, and those fish never seem to grow up, despite me checking every year to see if they've gained a few pounds. (grin) I honestly don't know where they go once they get past the ping pong stage, but it'd be interesting to know. I also have an area that holds 15-30lb halibut, and no small ones. Not sure where they go when they grow up either, but they'll often vanish for a few weeks, or even a season, and then be back to that spot, to the point you are hooked up the second you get to bottom. And I know I'm not fishing those fish out either, as I don't put too much pressure on it.

  3. #3

    Default Homer /Oregon

    Thought I heard of a Homer tagged fish caught off the coast off Oregon a few years back. Now thats some swimmin.

  4. #4

    Default

    I don't think it'd be too expensive for them to do a extensive tagging study. The charter capts would be more than willing to tag all released halibut, and log a measurement and the lat/long of the release in the logbook. In a few years with all the fishing going on, they'd have a really good idea of how fast those fish are growing, and where they are moving. ADFG already has us saving all clipped fin heads, and logging info on that. It'd be no big deal and kinda fun to participate in a halibut study.

  5. #5
    New member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Soldotna
    Posts
    5,639

    Default

    http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=18017098

    Abstract

    Pop-up archival transmitting (PAT) tags were used to study the fall migration of halibut in the Gulf of Alaska (GOA). We tagged 6 Pacific halibut Hippoglossus stenolepis on summer feeding grounds in the eastern GOA and another 6 in the western GOA from June 13 to August 6, 2002. The tags were programed to be released from the fish on January 15, 2003, at the height of the winter spawning season: 10 tags successfully detached, transmitted archived environmental data (depth and temperature), and generated accurate latitude-longitude coordinates shortly after pop-up; 2 tags deployed off SE Alaska were lost. The tags revealed that 6 fish had moved a considerable distance (>200 km) between tagging and pop-up, and all of these had moved northward to some extent. The longest of the observed migrations was from the southern Alaska Peninsula to Yakutat Bay, a linear displacement of 1153 km; 4 fish showed little evidence of geographic displacement, exhibiting migrations that ranged only from 30 to 69 km. Although 2 fish had moved inshore by the end of the tagging period, all other fish had moved offshore regardless of their overall migration distance. The precise timing of offshore movements varied, beginning as early as August and as late as January. These observations generally corroborate conventional tagging, indicating migration of halibut toward winter spawning grounds in the northern GOA, and movement of fish to deep water in fall. However, no single stereotypic migration behavior was apparent, and a variety of vertical movement patterns and temperature profiles were observed. Halibut spent most time in waters of 5 to 7°C, but experienced temperatures ranging from 2.6 to 11.6°C. Depth observations ranged from 0 to 736 m, with summertime activity concentrated in depths from 0 to 400 m, and halibut that exhibited offshore movement were typically observed at 300 to 700 m by mid-winter. Vertical movement (short-period changes in depth) varied among fish and over time, with some fish displaying little vertical activity, others displaying short periods of activity, and still others displaying considerable activity throughout their time at liberty.

  6. #6
    New member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Soldotna
    Posts
    5,639

    Default

    http://project.nprb.org/view.jsp?id=...a-93fe3dd2d29e

    0617 Migration patterns of Pacific halibut in the southeast Bering Sea
    Currently, it is assumed that eastern Pacific halibut Hippoglossus stenolepis belong to a single, fully mixed population extending from California through the Bering Sea, in which adult fish disperse randomly throughout their range during their lifetime. However, we hypothesize that Pacific halibut dispersal and behavior are more complex than currently assumed and are not spatially or temporally random. To test this hypothesis, we studied seasonal dispersal and behavior of Pacific halibut in the Bering Sea and Aleutian Islands. Pop-up Archival Transmitting tags provided no evidence that Pacific halibut moved out of the Bering Sea and Aleutian Islands region into the Gulf of Alaska during the mid-winter spawning season, supporting the concept that this region may contain a separate spawning component of adult fish. There was evidence for geographically localized groups of Pacific halibut along the Aleutian Island chain, as all of the fish tagged there displayed residency, with their movements possibly impeded by deep passes between islands. Mid-winter aggregation areas of Pacific halibut are assumed to be spawning grounds, of which two were previously unidentified and extend its presumed spawning range ~1000 km west and ~600 km north of the nearest documented spawning area. The summarized depth data transmitted via satellites was used to identify three general behavior patterns including dispersal to the continental slope, continental shelf residency, and feeding site fidelity. This behavior information may be used to refine some assumptions of Pacific halibut biology and ecology.


    Year funded: 2006
    Start date: May 01, 2006
    End date: Aug 31, 2008
    Budget: $150,000.00
    Metadata: Available At NPRB
    Data: Contact PI


  7. #7
    New member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Soldotna
    Posts
    5,639

    Default

    http://www.iphc.washington.edu/publi...Report0084.pdf


    INTERNATIONAL PACIFIC HALIBUT COMMISSION

    ESTABLISHED BY A CONVENTION BETWEEN
    CANADA AND THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
    Scientifi c Report No. 84
    Seasonal movements and
    environmental conditions
    experienced by Pacifi c halibut in
    the Bering Sea, examined by
    pop-up satellite tags
    by
    Andrew C. Seitza, Timothy Loherb, and Jennifer L. Nielsenc
    a U.S. Geological Survey/University of Alaska Fairbanks
    b International Pacifi c Halibut Commission
    c U.S. Geological Survey
    SEATTLE, WASHINGTON

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,448

    Default

    It would be great to tag a bunch of butts and see where they turn up. You could develop a real data base rather than an odd duck tagged derby fish that just took off for a swim being an exception rather than the rule.

  9. #9
    New member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Soldotna
    Posts
    5,639

    Cool What, why, and how . . .

    Looks to me like halibut migration has been the subject of more than one scientific study to date, and yet the partisan demand for economic opportunity goes on.

    "Though the fate of salmon rests in human hands, it is not clear that we will be able to save them even if our society wants to. Part of the problem lies in the conflict between the inherent uncertainty of the natural sciences and the certainty demanded by policy makers when balancing natural resource protection against economic opportunities."

    (King of Fish: The Thousand-Year Run of Salmon, Montgomery, Westview Press, 2003)

    The natural sciences, even given their inherent uncertainties and limitations, can only give us partial understand of the "what" of resource management. Only sociology, economics, and ethics give us the "how" and "why" of resource management.

    What exactly is hoped to be gained by further scientific study of halibut migration?

  10. #10
    Supporting Member Old John's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    1,481

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 270ti View Post
    Very interesting question. I've heard that a tagged homer halibut has been caught in Washington,but that was just dock talk, so I'm not sure how true it is.

    I know that halibut move, and certain sized halibut like certain areas. I'm not sure how far they move. We have large areas down by me offshore that are just choked with 9-14lb halibut, with very few 15-50lb halibut. It's always been like that, and those fish never seem to grow up, despite me checking every year to see if they've gained a few pounds. (grin) I honestly don't know where they go once they get past the ping pong stage, but it'd be interesting to know. I also have an area that holds 15-30lb halibut, and no small ones. Not sure where they go when they grow up either, but they'll often vanish for a few weeks, or even a season, and then be back to that spot, to the point you are hooked up the second you get to bottom. And I know I'm not fishing those fish out either, as I don't put too much pressure on it.
    Check with the Homer Halibut Derby Committee (Chamber of Commerce) When I sat on the Derby Committee (back in the last century) I believe a tagged fish was reportedly caught down off the west coast... unfortunately my memory isn't what it used to be...

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    Looks to me like halibut migration has been the subject of more than one scientific study to date, and yet the partisan demand for economic opportunity goes on.

    What exactly is hoped to be gained by further scientific study of halibut migration?
    I cherry picked a few of your quotes.

    I read through the studies, and they didn't seem very comprehensive to me. They seemed to address the issue of where the halibut went to spawn, not where they visited throughout there lifespan.

    I think they'd have plenty to learn from further studies.

    The knowledge of knowing how fast they are growing, how far their homeranges are, and where they like to be in certain stages of their lives would be critical in how they manage certain areas in AK.

  12. #12
    New member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Soldotna
    Posts
    5,639

    Red face More studies . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by 270ti View Post
    I think they'd have plenty to learn from further studies.

    The knowledge of knowing how fast they are growing, how far their homeranges are, and where they like to be in certain stages of their lives would be critical in how they manage certain areas in AK.

    Undoubtedly so, ti, scientific knowledge is never exhaustive nor can it ever be, and that's especially true of the natural sciences. Always something more to learn. That said, it isn't "science" that determines how resources are managed.

    Resources are managed in term of social values and priorities . . politics, economics, and ethics. Science only tells us "what," social values define all the rest.

    In the meantime, demand for economic opportunity in the harvest of the commons goes on.

    And on, and on . . .

    My question remains: what do we hope to gain by further studies? Which begs the question, "What do we do in the meantime?" Shut down the fishery until more studies are available?

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,534

    Default

    The natural sciences, even given their inherent uncertainties and limitations, can only give us partial understand of the "what" of resource management. Only sociology, economics, and ethics give us the "how" and "why" of resource management.

    What exactly is hoped to be gained by further scientific study of halibut migration?


    I am not going to get into details but the above statement is just flat wrong in my opinion. How we manage resources is also a scientific question and why we manage resources is also a scientific question. One good example is the difference between single species management - the discussion of this thread - and ecosystem management. The how and why are technical questions that the natural sciences are an integral part in recommendations and decisions. I am not dismissing the other areas only not excluding the natural sciences in the equation.

    The question of what is to be gained is one that our society has failed at numerous times. Because some think that the social and ethical questions should decide this there may be a loss of knowledge that we cannot even guess at. Advances in resource management come from a number of scientists that do not study the species of economic and social interests or are afraid to do it because of unfounded ethical positions. The literature is full of examples of where understanding species and systems comes from studying systems for the sake of knowledge not some perceived gain defined before one starts. These understandings then apply to species of economic or social concern.

    That is why funding of these studies is typically at the Federal level and at Universities. State resource departments are limited to those who ask " what is to be gained?" and by definition are limiting the options those State's have for resource management. Alaska is a prime example. You do not see basic life history information for even the most prized species - look at the lack of knowledge on Kenai River Chinook salmon. Long term research is not funded because short term issues dominate the discussion in the political environment of the State.

    I do not want to take this thread into the discussion of this point but could not leave the comment to stand as some truth.

  14. #14
    New member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Soldotna
    Posts
    5,639

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    . . I do not want to take this thread into the discussion of this point . .
    See new thread . .

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Anchorage
    Posts
    97

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post


    My question remains: what do we hope to gain by further studies? Which begs the question, "What do we do in the meantime?" Shut down the fishery until more studies are available?
    The ability to make informed management decisions about a valuable renewable resource. In the meantime, we manage conservatively based on the best available information. Sorry to state the obvious - perhaps I am missing your point.

  16. #16
    New member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Soldotna
    Posts
    5,639

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joel in Alaska View Post
    . . perhaps I am missing your point.
    See The science and sociology of fisheries' management thread on this forum for an explanation.

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    2,086

    Default

    Not to get too far off the OP, but some years back I caught a green sturgeon off the Copper River and took it in to have it smoked and canned. While cleaning it I found not one but two radio transmitters which had stickers with the name of a fellow who was leading a study of sturgeon in San Francisco Bay and the Sacramento River. I was curious and went online to see what I could find and then called this professor to tell him I had his transmitters. He was very excited that this fish that had been in his study had traveled all the way to Alaska, they had no idea they migrated this far. He explained that the original study was for the purpose of finding out what areas of SF Bay and the Sacramento were important habitat for the Southern Green Sturgeon population. They even have color coded maps showing the travels of each individual sturgeon that was part of the study. There has been a significant decline in their population. In fact the Southern Green Sturgeon is now either listed as threatened or endangered and the taking of them is prohibited in Cal, Ore, and Washington. But here's a question, If they are spending a lot of time in the ocean and migrating at least as far as Alaska and who knows where, maybe there are substantially more sturgeon than they think. Maybe the reason they aren't finding them is that they are out in the ocean in a natural migration. The sturgeon I caught hadn't been tracked in over two years when I caught it. And mine is far from the only sturgeon caught in Alaska. Over the last 40 years I have caught 4 of them and know of many others. So there is definitely a place in science and management to know more about migrations in different fish populations.
    An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.
    - Jef Mallett

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •