Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 84

Thread: Dipping for trophies?

  1. #1
    New member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Soldotna
    Posts
    5,639

    Question Dipping for trophies?

    There's an op ed in today's Peninsula Clarion titled "The demise of the Kenai River king salmon." (I'll post a link as soon as the Clarion puts the article online and if anyone's interested.)

    The article's title is misleading because the author is not talking about Kenai kings in general but rather about "trophy" Kenai kings, which, evidently, is any king over 55".

    The article claims that the Kenai's dip-net fishery is currently taking "10001,500" Kenai kings annually. Now based on our family's experience with dip-netting the Kenai, those figures seem incredible and vastly overstated.

    My questions for Kenai dip-netters: 1) What's your experience, does it seem reasonable to imagine the fishery taking that many kings? 2) How would anyone know for sure? 3) Has anyone ever witnessed a "trophy" king taken in a dip-net?

    Thanks . . .

  2. #2
    Member chico99645's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Palmer
    Posts
    1,481

    Default

    My family has only been dipping for 7 or 8 years out of the 13 we've been back this time. We have ever only boated 3 kings. One of those was 70+ pounds and that was 4-5 years ago. It almost took a friend overboard and the net was shreaded after it was all done and said. I was amazed we got it in the boat. I didn't catch her as I was driving. It wasn't my call to let her go. It was his permit, his fish. The other two were 25-30 pounders. I personally never netted one, but I've have my net hit twice by a freight train ripping a hole in net both times.

  3. #3
    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    2,366

    Default

    The ten year average on kings taken in the dipnet fishery is in the middle 800's to almost 900 in some years, I believe. That is off the top of my head so don't hold me too firm on that number. ( If you want the hard numbers, I'll look it up later for you) With that said, there is only a column on the dipnet card to mark off any kings. There is no way that you can find out their weights because reporting doesn't ask for it. Remember too that on the Kenai, you are allowed retention of one king only, per year, per family.
    Marcus, I have been dipping since the early 90's and my total in all these years,is I have caught three. I jack and two in the 30 lb range.
    It is not everyday that you catch a king dipping. They stay pretty deep when first entering the river and the reds hang close to shore so that is where the majority of people dip, close to shore.
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

  4. #4
    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    2,366

    Default

    Marcus, from 1996 to 2010, the average was 865 kings retained in the Kenai
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

  5. #5
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Eagle River, AK
    Posts
    13,393

    Default

    I've never caught a king while dipping from shore, but two of the three times I've dipped from a boat have resulted in a king boated - two kings one of the times. In my very informal observations it seems that boat dippers have a reasonable chance to netting a king while those from shore have a very slim chance of doing so.

  6. #6
    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    2,366

    Default

    Marcus, I stand corrected as I read the stat chart wrong. 865 was the total catch for 2010. The minimum, mean and maximum numbers for those years is like 254 Minimum/ 788 mean/ and 1509 maximum, from 1992 to 2010

    Brian is right on the boat verses beach thing. All 3 of mine were caught from a boat. In all the years on the beach, I have only seen 3 landed from shore. Hope that helps. Can't find the Clarion's link, did you see it posted yet??
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    Marcus, I stand corrected as I read the stat chart wrong. 865 was the total catch for 2010. The minimum, mean and maximum numbers for those years is like 254 Minimum/ 788 mean/ and 1509 maximum, from 1992 to 2010

    Brian is right on the boat verses beach thing. All 3 of mine were caught from a boat. In all the years on the beach, I have only seen 3 landed from shore. Hope that helps. Can't find the Clarion's link, did you see it posted yet??
    Sounds to me like the paper took the max number to support their opinion.

  8. #8
    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    2,366

    Default

    Of course so now we know where the writer stands w/o even having to read it. Still waiting for it to be posted though!!!
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

  9. #9
    New member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Soldotna
    Posts
    5,639

    Exclamation The link!

    Here's the link, guys, just up in the last 20 minutes:

    http://peninsulaclarion.com/opinion/...n#.ToIi2ka1uDQ

    Still trying to figure out what dip-netting has to do with the demise of [trophy] Kenai kings . .

    Grasping at straws . .

  10. #10
    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    2,366

    Default

    How about manipulating facts to try to prove a point?
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

  11. #11
    Member fullbush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    2,674

    Default Usual suspects?

    Yeah whop the Newspaper is manipulating the facts, yeah thats it













    I'm taking a poll
    <--------click this star if you think I should run for Gov

  12. #12
    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    2,366

    Default

    Looks like that guy in the upper left is a setnetter with the three kings. The upper right is not out of the water and looks like it will be put back in. Why else would these guys be sitting in water showing off a king rather then hanging from some hook? The bottom picture shows people dipnetting only. So you have a guide, a comfisher and dipnetters. All three users that were allowed by regulation to retain same. Change the regulations, not the users. I know the author and he uses the dipnet fishery as a red herring. Like Marcus said!!! Come on FB, you can shoot from the hip better than that, I know you can!!!!
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

  13. #13
    Member fullbush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    2,674

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    Looks like that guy in the upper left is a setnetter with the three kings. Come on FB, you can shoot from the hip better than that, I know you can!!!!
    That guy in the upper left is the prettiest gawl dern setnetter I've ever seen! I thought setnetters wore rain gear not neoprene chesties? I do see the setnet buoys in the back ground, but no corkline, hmm
    Looks like another commercial closure so the dippers can waylay some kings is what it looks like to me.








    I'm taking a poll
    <--------click this star if you think I should run for Gov

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    How about manipulating facts to try to prove a point?
    Hmmm...I'm somewhat puzzled by your remark as the author states, "as the fishery grew to accomodate over 20,000 households the harvest grew to between 1,000 to 1500 annually." That sounds like he's talking about the most recent years to me.

    ADF&G Data: Kings caught in the Kenai R. Dipnet fishery: 2006 - 1,034, 2007 - 1,509, 2008 - 1,362, 2009 - 1,198 ... I don't have 2010 or 2011 data, but it sounds like facts is facts whop... I'm not saying whether taking kings in the dipnet fishery is right or wrong because I've done it myself. Just don't castigate the guy if his information is correct. It's too easy to throw stones in this forum if you don't supply the data.... Nuff said

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    6,031

    Default 3 Kings

    I've seen (eyes on) 2 kings caught within 50 yards of my spot on the beach; both very much were very large trophies.

    And last year at the Kasilof (where I'd have had to throw him back anyway) I had a freight train almost drown me, since I had as good of a hold on my net handle as Homer did on the Coke can (that was inside the machine) until the paramedics told Homer to just "let it go".

    I didn't let go though, and ended up wet all over, and with a totally shredded (though formerly brand new, top of the line) net.

    So no, I've not caught one myself yet, though I've dipped a lot of sockeyes.

    Bottom line: I do NOT see a lot of Kings taken by dipnetters.

  16. #16
    Moderator hunt_ak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Wasilla--Cantwell Transplant
    Posts
    4,600

    Default

    I know MaximumPenetration has dipped close to 800 fish out of his boat in the past two years. From what he's said, the percentages of kings is very low and nothing in the 'trophy' class from what was stated above. I may be incorrect, but I'm sure he will stop by....

  17. #17
    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    2,366

    Default

    Pacman, I know the guy who penned this and we have had countless discussions at the BOF meetings about King retention in the dipnet fishery. He has personally argued that kings should not be retained at all from dipnetting. Ergo... my interpretation of his writing and the numbers given. There have been 20,000 household participating for longer than 2006 if my memory serves me correctly. Don't have time to look it up though. Even if I'm wrong, Marcus is right. What does dipping have to do with Monster Kings and their demise? For arguements sake, what is 1500 kings when you don't get to pick and choose? Especially when the optimum escapement goal is a whole lot more than that?
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

  18. #18
    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    2,366

    Default

    I have to post a retraction of sorts. With old age and Alheimers setting in faster then I would like, I have confused the author who penned the article with someone else. He sent me a nice e-mail late today and I am replying in kind.
    Sir, I have confused you with another. I will not reprint your e-mail but just a wee bit of a thought with your justification, as quoted from our private chat.

    "As for the mention of the PU fishery in my article, I was just trying to point out all of the demands on the King harvests without any visions for what we are going to have to do in-river to conserve this run before it's to late."

    That, my friend, is to the point. You just did not make clear on what your thoughts were, per the article. Am I touchy when it comes to dipping? You betcha. Because I believe it is an an Alaskans right to do so. It is our resource. But... I do apoligize if you feel tarnished. The point being, is the article talking about hogs or all kings, jacks included? You call a problem on the hogs but tarnish all users for using, that was my point. Tight lines and nets folks. That is all we can ask
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

  19. #19
    Member sayak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Central peninsula, between the K-rivers
    Posts
    5,788

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fullbush View Post
    Yeah whop the Newspaper is manipulating the facts, yeah thats it








    The young lady is a set-netter. Note the tracks? We wore waders all the time as Bristol Bay set-netters. They work great for picking the net as the tide goes out. The other two are obviously sport caught and dip net.

  20. #20
    Member fullbush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    2,674

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sayak View Post
    The young lady is a set-netter. Note the tracks? We wore waders all the time as Bristol Bay set-netters. They work great for picking the net as the tide goes out. The other two are obviously sport caught and dip net.
    As Sarah Palin would say-- GOSH DARNIT! sayak, why would a setter be fiddling w/ kings w/o gloves on? Also inlet setters don't wear neoprene chesties! They pick their nets from skiffs, thats what the tire tracks are from, launching the skiff. Notice, no skiff, no corkline? She is clearly a dipper! I know, I know, dippers are not that hot, well she's an exception.





    I'm taking a poll
    <--------click this star if you think I should run for Gov

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •