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Thread: halibut changes

  1. #1
    Member redleader's Avatar
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    Default halibut changes

    The last thread is closed? The problem I see is in the Homer area the average size fish is 18lbs, a one fish limit for charters may do more damage then good if the captains allow their clients to release multiple fish trying to get one larger one and may just put more pressure on the already depleted larger fish. I have seen the large fish in this area go to few and far between through the years and some who are hollering the loudest over the proposed changes are the ones who did the most damage as far as harvesting so many large fish, now the fishing for halibut is poor at best. I'm sure the commercial fishery draggers etc. are having an impact, although the charter fleet needs to look at the real impact they have had through the years and stop playing the blame game, they are now running 50- 60 miles for ling cod because they have already wiped out the decent fishing closer in. I would be in favor of some kind of protection on the larger halibut and a more liberal limit on the more abundant smaller ones.

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    I have to agree with you redleader. I've seen the delcine in large lings east of Seward ( PWS) and I can only think that a having a two fish limit is part to blame. I just don't see why people need to retain so much fish on a "combo trip"; 3 silver, 2 lings, 2 halibut, and 6 rockfish x 6- 18 people a day. Does that extra ling really make or break a already great sounding trip? I've killed lots of big fish, so I guess I'm to blame too but there is clearly a decline in our resources and something needs to give. I know lots of charter operators and it's hard situation because I know they have a right to make a living just as I do, but they have a large impact in this propblem just like the commercial guys. A couple years a go I was talking to a very good charter captain and he said that on a good year his six pack boat could retain 30,000 lbs in a season ( granted this would be one of the better captains in the area, but that's a lot of fish for just one boat). I hope the powers that be will try to find a solution that will protects the resource not protect people's vested interest.
    Boatless

  3. #3

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    I'm just curious why the other thread was closed. I found it enlightening and a good discussion of what's going on. I had just finished my post and went to correct something in it and I couldn't because it had been closed. It would be nice if they'd give us an explanation.

    Anyway, to a degree, I agree with both of you, but in a nutshell I believe there are ways to retain a 2 fish limit without devastating the biomass. But when millions of pounds of halibut are wasted by draggers every year there's a problem that should be dealt with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttley Crew Fishing View Post
    But when millions of pounds of halibut are wasted by draggers every year there's a problem that should be dealt with.
    I don't why do they let this continue, its crazy cause they're killing a hefty amount of chinooks as well. My guess is, these marauders don't care about the fish stocks, when they exhaust the stocks in the gulf they'll just move to a different fishery. I know Bering Sea fishermen that have moved to the east coast up by Maine and Mass because they're cutting fat hogs trawling herring now (again.) IMHO I think all big factory type fisheries need to be halted ASAP. We have very few mom and pop fisheries, other than salmon, in this state and its high time we got some, like they do in Wa and Ore. The small coastal towns would flourish and the resource would be managed in a conservative manner, not to mention the money would stay here. Whats it gonna take to put a charge in the ass of the folks that can make this happen? If its money then we need to start up a collection....thats all





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    Quote Originally Posted by fullbush View Post
    IMHO I think all big factory type fisheries need to be halted ASAP. We have very few mom and pop fisheries, other than salmon, in this state and its high time we got some, like they do in Wa and Ore. The small coastal towns would flourish and the resource would be managed in a conservative manner, not to mention the money would stay here.
    Great idea! I would love to see small communities like Seldovia flourish again. It used to be a booming little fishing town with Canneries. Now it's struggling and barely even a tourist destination.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by fullbush View Post
    I don't why do they let this continue, its crazy cause they're killing a hefty amount of chinooks as well. My guess is, these marauders don't care about the fish stocks, when they exhaust the stocks in the gulf they'll just move to a different fishery. I know Bering Sea fishermen that have moved to the east coast up by Maine and Mass because they're cutting fat hogs trawling herring now (again.) IMHO I think all big factory type fisheries need to be halted ASAP. We have very few mom and pop fisheries, other than salmon, in this state and its high time we got some, like they do in Wa and Ore. The small coastal towns would flourish and the resource would be managed in a conservative manner, not to mention the money would stay here. Whats it gonna take to put a charge in the ass of the folks that can make this happen? If its money then we need to start up a collection....thats all
    Unfortunately we know that's never going to happen. It's supply side economics and essentially a deal with the devil---they get to kill all the bycatch they want to get that product they're after that people from every corner of the world will pay good money for. It happens everywhere.

    And, unfortunately, starting up a collection to fight it isn't going to cut it. The comfish fleets have more than just their own money backing them. Think of the supply chain that product goes through and the number of lobbyists and amount of money those companies have behind them to make sure they get what they want at all costs.

    What it will take is what is transpiring right now with things like Jim's and Craig Medred's articles in the Alaska Dispatch. The word needs to be spread and people have to fight it with words. Money ain't gonna cut it.
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    Do you have a link to that article?
    Boatless

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    I have to agree we have decimated the lingcod. I used to try to advocate a volentary one fish limit on my boat but customer demand to keep two made me scrap it. We have killed probabaly 75% of the lingcod in Western Prince William Sound in the last ten years.

    As far as a bag limit reduction on halibut, there is a provision in the catch sharing plan to lease commercial quota to use in keep the bag limit. I am going to offer a two fish bag limit no matter what the regulations say. I am in the process of buying IFQ shares right now, and will convert them to Guided Angler Fish when it becomes necessary so that I can always offer the option of the "two fish trip" along the a "regulation" trip what ever the regs end up being.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by FISHFACE View Post
    Do you have a link to that article?
    http://www.alaskadispatch.com/articl...tch-share-plan

    and this is referenced in Jim's article, but it's pretty important so I'm going to post its link, too: http://www.alaskacharter.org/Catch_S...%20Version.pdf
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttley Crew Fishing View Post

    The comfish fleets have more than just their own money backing them.
    I don't like this kind of dialogue because it lumps all com-fisheries together, and we're talking about factory trawling here. For the sake of the localized small time fisheries we need to be careful because the uneducated aren't able to differentiate between small sustainable fisheries and the plundering big boys that follow the money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muttley Crew Fishing View Post
    it will take is what is transpiring right now with things like Jim's and Craig Medred's articles in the Alaska Dispatch. The word needs to be spread and people have to fight it with words. Money ain't gonna cut it.
    I don't roll w/ Medred, he whines way too much about salmon fishermen, I'm not sure about this Jim guy. Don't be thinking I'm all about IFQ's either cause I aint!





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    Quote Originally Posted by AKCAPT View Post
    I have to agree we have decimated the lingcod. I used to try to advocate a volentary one fish limit on my boat but customer demand to keep two made me scrap it. We have killed probabaly 75&#37; of the lingcod in Western Prince William Sound in the last ten years.

    As far as a bag limit reduction on halibut, there is a provision in the catch sharing plan to lease commercial quota to use in keep the bag limit. I am going to offer a two fish bag limit no matter what the regulations say. I am in the process of buying IFQ shares right now, and will convert them to Guided Angler Fish when it becomes necessary so that I can always offer the option of the "two fish trip" along the a "regulation" trip what ever the regs end up being.
    Good for you!! Sounds like you are taking a progressive and sensible approach. We always to to take and not give. I've always wondered how the commercial guys can compete with the sports fisherman on a financial basis. Big chain hotels, small lodges, big chain stores like sportsmans, cabelas, bass pro, even REI can really help compete that way.

  12. #12

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    I read that the charter fisherman are taking 20% of the allowable harvest in cook inlet and NGC. It used to be 15%. With the already 30% of charter fisherman getting pushed out this last year, why is there a need to drop limit at all? It should be a sustainable 15% now seeing as how there won't be any more charter shares added any time soon. Say with the 30% reduction in charters. They now harvest 14% of allowable harvest. The Feds want to cut that in half to 7%? What sense does that make?

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    Wasn't there some regulation change this year that capped the trawlers on their Chinook take, and if they exceeded it, that had to stop fishing for the year? As I recall it was still a big number, something like 20,000 fish. If you stop the trawlers, do you know what that is going to do the the price of a fillet-o-fish??
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKCAPT View Post
    I have to agree we have decimated the lingcod. I used to try to advocate a volentary one fish limit on my boat but customer demand to keep two made me scrap it. We have killed probabaly 75&#37; of the lingcod in Western Prince William Sound in the last ten years.

    As far as a bag limit reduction on halibut, there is a provision in the catch sharing plan to lease commercial quota to use in keep the bag limit. I am going to offer a two fish bag limit no matter what the regulations say. I am in the process of buying IFQ shares right now, and will convert them to Guided Angler Fish when it becomes necessary so that I can always offer the option of the "two fish trip" along the a "regulation" trip what ever the regs end up being.
    Now THAT is a good use of the resource. Very slick move on your part, and when the time comes I'm sure others will wish they'd thought of it. You're not "wasting" any fish, just taking a share from one sector to the other. I like that idea a lot, and it protects you in the future.

  15. #15

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    Here's an editorial I wrote that appeared in both Homer Newspapers and here in the Clarion that pretty much sums things up without getting into too much detail. If you care about the future of sport fishing in Alaska you should use the charter assoc. link on Muttley's post and send in your objections. Piece by piece, fishery by fishery, commercial interests will wipe it out until it's gone and it's time to take a stand. Our kings are being caught and wasted by the tens of thousands by the pollack draggers, halibut bycatch outweighs the sport harvest, and now our silver runs in the Anchor and lower penninsuls streams are less than a third of what they historically are and why?? Looks like a special COMMERCIAL opener for reds in the inlet that caught more silvers than reds. ADFG is also indirectly run by and controlled by commercial fishing interests. Take a look at the background of the Parnell appointed commisioner. When are we all going to wake up and say enough is enough??
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    Quote Originally Posted by emo View Post
    now our silver runs in the Anchor and lower penninsuls streams are less than a third of what they historically are and why?? Looks like a special COMMERCIAL opener for reds in the inlet that caught more silvers than reds. ADFG is also indirectly run by and controlled by commercial fishing interests. Take a look at the background of the Parnell appointed commisioner. When are we all going to wake up and say enough is enough??
    Emo
    Don't get excited pal there was a statewide coho shortage.I'm pretty sure one 12hr opener didn't decimate an entire run. You're part of the problem, not the solution, because as long as you keep spreading ill-advised propaganda there isn't gonna be anything accomplished. All I can say is educate yourself on the subject matter and get back to us. You saying the ADF&G is controlled by commercial interest is ludicrous. Those biologists don't make near enough money to skewer any data one way or the other. Its simple common sense, of course theres no conspiracy going on.





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  17. #17

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    Dear Fullbush,
    I'm not your pal and obviously your the one that needs an education. I got that info straight from one of those underpaid biologists but I will agree it's a little early to speculate and draw a conclusion. Get back to the original subject and read my article. Tell me what facts you disagree with. Look up the F&G comissioner bio and tell me her interests don't lie totally with commercial interests.
    Emo

  18. #18
    Member redleader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FISHFACE View Post
    I have to agree with you redleader. I've seen the delcine in large lings east of Seward ( PWS) and I can only think that a having a two fish limit is part to blame. I just don't see why people need to retain so much fish on a "combo trip"; 3 silver, 2 lings, 2 halibut, and 6 rockfish x 6- 18 people a day. Does that extra ling really make or break a already great sounding trip? I've killed lots of big fish, so I guess I'm to blame too but there is clearly a decline in our resources and something needs to give. I know lots of charter operators and it's hard situation because I know they have a right to make a living just as I do, but they have a large impact in this propblem just like the commercial guys. A couple years a go I was talking to a very good charter captain and he said that on a good year his six pack boat could retain 30,000 lbs in a season ( granted this would be one of the better captains in the area, but that's a lot of fish for just one boat). I hope the powers that be will try to find a solution that will protects the resource not protect people's vested interest.
    The same thing has happened in the homer area and some of the ling charters are now passing gore point and fishing the nuka bay area, I hope they abide by the 1 fish limit once they pass gore pt. Thanks to ak capt for recognizing the decimation and hopefully we can do are best to conserve these fish before the powers that be do it for us. The other concern is the new halibut regs will most likely put more pressure and interest in multiple species trips which will have a negative impact on the fishery.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKCAPT View Post
    I have to agree we have decimated the lingcod. I used to try to advocate a volentary one fish limit on my boat but customer demand to keep two made me scrap it. We have killed probabaly 75% of the lingcod in Western Prince William Sound in the last ten years.

    As far as a bag limit reduction on halibut, there is a provision in the catch sharing plan to lease commercial quota to use in keep the bag limit. I am going to offer a two fish bag limit no matter what the regulations say. I am in the process of buying IFQ shares right now, and will convert them to Guided Angler Fish when it becomes necessary so that I can always offer the option of the "two fish trip" along the a "regulation" trip what ever the regs end up being.
    Good thinking. I am from Oregon and my father and grandfather were both charter fishermen when I was young. Back in the day I remember them catching ling cod big enough to put a size 12 shoe in sideways. Now the biggest lings you catch could be swallowed by AK lings. I don't think you will ever decimate them but you will definitely kill the big ones and only be catching smaller ones eventually.
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    AKCAP, Correct me if I'm wrong . In the CSP I think it states that you can only lease like 15 to 20 &#37; of your IFQ shares out to be used for a GAF fish for a charter angler. You would have to have around 120lbs of IFQ for each charter angler fish at a cost to you of around $3500 on the bright side you can fall back on comm fishing after the summer charter season is over. I just don't have the extra $350,000 on hand for 100 clients to catch one more fish each. Some of my friends that that have loans on thier IFQs in southeast can't catch the pounds to make thier payments this year the whole thing is sad.

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