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Thread: Alagnak and NPS enforcement?

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    Member Phish Finder's Avatar
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    Default Alagnak and NPS enforcement?

    Last week on the Alagnak I had a run-in with NPS enforcement. They were a couple of kids who had no idea what was going on in the area. These guys came up and wanted to do license checks on the two clients and myself. I told them that it was inconvenient as we were fishing and they would have to come back later. They showed up to do checks the next morning at camp. When I asked about jurisdiction, they informed me that we were in the Alagnak National Preserve. I've never heard of the Alagnak National Preserve. After asking about their right to ticket people in the corridor they promptly left and didn't bother us again.

    Does NPS enforcement have a right to harass fishermen on the Alagnak? We were about 3/4 of the way between the confluence of Kukaklek and Nonvianuk and the cabin, right after a heavily braided section. This puts us outside of Katmai if all of my maps are correct.

    Any idea where I can find out their enforcement ability?
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    Member fullbush's Avatar
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    Not to defer from your question but I thought I'd share my experience. A couple weeks ago I was sport fishing on 7 mi of the Copper river highway and there was a NPS guy and a trooper, in the troopers truck. They checked our license, the pimply faced NPS guy checked mine while the trooper checked my buddy. I'm not sure what to make of that, but I complied because I'm trying to minimize the stress in my life





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    Quote Originally Posted by Phish Finder View Post
    Last week on the Alagnak I had a run-in with NPS enforcement. They were a couple of kids who had no idea what was going on in the area. These guys came up and wanted to do license checks on the two clients and myself. I told them that it was inconvenient as we were fishing and they would have to come back later. They showed up to do checks the next morning at camp. When I asked about jurisdiction, they informed me that we were in the Alagnak National Preserve. I've never heard of the Alagnak National Preserve. After asking about their right to ticket people in the corridor they promptly left and didn't bother us again.

    Does NPS enforcement have a right to harass fishermen on the Alagnak? We were about 3/4 of the way between the confluence of Kukaklek and Nonvianuk and the cabin, right after a heavily braided section. This puts us outside of Katmai if all of my maps are correct.

    Any idea where I can find out their enforcement ability?
    Did you get their names and organization info? I'd like to understand what that was about because I go out there too.

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    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    the Alagnak is mostly National Wild and Scenic River so yes NPS has jurisdiction
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    Member Phish Finder's Avatar
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    Hey Q, are you gonna be on the Peninsula at all next week?
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    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    956 mbar low, that puts it right around category 3


    might put a damper on the festivities
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    It's not putting a damper on my festivities. I've celebrated in the eye of 4 hurricanes so a little breeze and rain will do nothing but make me appreciate my quality raingear.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phish Finder View Post
    Hey Q, are you gonna be on the Peninsula at all next week?
    I am probably gonna make for a few days (hopefully Thursday and Friday). Look forward to having a beer with you around the fire and shooting the shet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by qkayak View Post
    Look forward to having a beer with you around the fire and shooting the shet.
    I'm looking forward to the same!
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    Default Got Socked in the Face by a Park Ranger!!!

    One of the members of another site i hang out on posted this, so i guess the sh**heads are everywhere. Kinda long winded but worth the read.
    He also posted some of it on youtube http://youtu.be/WPZ4L0BRfFw

    Went to check out the Ft. Tilden/Breezy point Shore Road lot Sunday to see if it was open. No luck, still closed after the hurricane. There was a park ranger there, I asked him if the Breezy lot was open. He informed me the breezy lot is also closed. Went back to Ft.Tilden to see if I could get access from there. Upon entering, stopped by a Female Park Ranger to see where I was going. I replied. She told me that the "Adaptive Aquatics" lot is open between the hours of 4pm and 9am for people with the fishing parking permit. I don't usually fish this area so I asked her where the lot was. At which point she asked me if I had a permit. I told her I did. She then replied. "when you filled out your blue card were you not explained all the rules and regulations"? "were you not given a map of the area instructing you where you can and can not park"? I said I was given a map but it wasn't on me at the moment. She vaguely explained where it was in a very irritated manner. She then said "you need to go back over the bridge and get a map from the Ranger Station at Floyd Bennett Field. There was a car behind me waiting while she was dealing with me. The car tried to pass, She jumped out in front of it screaming "Back up Back up, you need to wait your turn" then the woman turns to me and says "I don't like that" At this point she instructs me to turn left and exit the park. Which I did, upon exiting I noticed a small parking lot with the usual signs "Permit required at all times June 15th through September 15th" I wondered if this was "our" parking lot. So I came back in to inquire if I could park at that lot. The same Lady greeted me, now visibly agitated. I pointed to the lot and she replied that that is for selective activities, I asked her which would those be? She then screamed out that she is a uniformed officer and that I need to exit the park. At which point I asked her why she was so rude. She immediately grabs her radio and radios the Park police describing my vehicle, the plate number and that I'm being difficult. Then tells me to pull over to the side. I did. A couple of minutes later, park police comes and talks to her first. Then I explain the situation. The Park Police Officer was very nice about the whole thing. Explained to me exactly where the lot was, then apologized to me about the shore rd. parking lot not being open yet. Then starts talking to me about strippers and blues and tells me that I should check out Beach 222nd lot. I was surprised, and told him that I was just informed it's closed. He assured me that it was open and only closed for 4wd access to the tip. I thanked him and drove down to Beach 222nd lot. It was indeed open and almost full.

    After some time there I was making my way down to Brooklyn and decided to stop at the Floyd Bennett ranger Station to pick up the booklet. I was given a booklet with the maps by a female officer and she marked down the Adaptive Aquatics parking lot for me. Then I asked her if she knew when the shore rd. parking lot would be open. She said she had no Idea and that everything is closed on the other side for the time being. I told her that I was just at beach 222nd and it was open. As well as adaptive aquatics lot between 4 and 9. And that I was told by Park Police to actually go there and that is is open. She said that I must have "Slipped through the cracks" and the lot was definitely closed. Then, a Male ranger Going by the name of Rudy with a distinct stutter in his voice gets in the conversation and insists that it is in fact closed. Then he gets out somebody's confiscated sticker clipped to a blue card and says that they just removed it from somebody's car because they were in a closed lot. I was stunned by this. And again told both Rudy and the Female officer that I just came from beach 222nd and was instructed by Park Police that it is open and witnessed a lot full of cars with no signs or personnel directing otherwise. The rangers are becoming increasing angry with me at this point stating that they have the correct information while reminding me that I'm "just a guest in the park" and need to follow their instructions. So I remind them who is paying their salary. Rudy then says to me that I'm not paying his salary and that I will get my sticker removed if I go there again. I ask him, what will I get my sticker removed for, if there are no signs, no personnel, no roadblock directing to the closure and on the contrary Instructions by Park Police state that it's open. At this point he is starting to loose it. And starts talking loudly over everybody. Including the other two female officers that were there. They try to calm him down, to no avail. Then he starts blabbering how he is not going to renew my pass. At this point I'm getting aggravated too and tell Rudy that he is not the one to decide to renew my pass or not and he is way out of line with his demeanor. I would like his full name to file a complaint with the NPS commissioner. I didn't have a pen so asked the female officer for a pen to write down Rudy's full information. She would not give me a pen and decides to call the National Park Service Super to prove to me that the lot is closed. So she gets on the phone. To her surprise she is informed that the 222nd and Adaptive Aquatics lots are open. And only the 4wd beach access is closed as I have stated. She still wouldn't give me a pen, stating; and I'm using her exact words here " you already got information up your wazoo"

    I went down to my car grabbed my phone and came back in to record Rudy's full name so I could make a written complaint. Upon my return I politely asked for Rudy's last name. He jumped up from behind the counter garbed his name badge and stuck it in my face while spitting and stuttering. At this point I realize that the guy is out of control, both female officers that were present are trying to calm him down but he keeps screaming profanities and and waiving his hands. Just in case, I hit the record button on my phone as Rudy made his way to me from behind the counter. I'm thinking the guy is going for it. Sure enough, Rudy comes up to me and socks me on the right side of my face, grabs my phone, throws it down on the floor. Then he grabs me by my shirt and cocks his fist back to punch me again. I'm trying to remain calm and my only thoughts are to stay in control and not hit him back. Because I know if I do, he has two witnesses in his corner that will have his back no matter what, and if I lay so much as a finger on him I will be made out as the perpetrator and be arrested no matter what. Luckily the two female officers grabbed him right as he pulled his fist back to punch me again. I grab my phone on the floor to call the cops and but the battery popped out and the phone reset. I asked the Female officer to call the police as I rushed out of the building. Jumped in my car and drove to the Park Police Building nearby. I get there, in hopes that I got something on video and to make and assault report. Unfortunately when the phone fell down the video didn't save and I had nothing!

    I decide to make a report anyway. Met with a detective and told him the whole story. I can tell that he can hardly believe what he is hearing. Then another cop comes in and he hears the story. They did their job, they took the report. Took pictures, but you could tell that it was with a bit of comedic appetite about it. I don't know If i was a cop i would believe something like that. So they made it abundantly clear that there are other witnesses and that I better not make anything up as to purger myself. My only response was that I hope the other side takes their statement as seriously as I do. So finally after taking the report they ask me what do you want to happen? Then they tell me they have five conflicting stories from witnesses. Five? where did the other two suddenly come from? I went home in hopes of being able to restore something from my phone. Well after 5minutes of googling i was bale to restore the corrupted video file
    from my phone. It is a whole of 9 seconds long. Put it on a CD and right back to the precinct I went.

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    Member dmahay's Avatar
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    Phish Finder

    First thing I would check is the States Navigable Waters Map.
    http://dnr.alaska.gov/mlw/nav/map_disclaimer.htm Many waterways may be within a park boundary, but NOT the water within the Ord High Water Mark and hence jursidictional complications, as I am told.

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    Dmahay, that's more along the lines of what I was thinking. I don't even know who to call to clarify this situation.

    Potbuilder, that's quite an interesting story.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey View Post
    the Alagnak is mostly National Wild and Scenic River so yes NPS has jurisdiction
    Perhaps an undertanding of national park' and wild designation is in order for you.
    squab (probably of Scandinavian descent; skvabb, meaning "loose, fat flesh") is a young domestic pigeon or its meat

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    http://www.nps.gov/alag/parkmgmt/loa...&PageID=351074

    Phish -- this is a link to a National Park Service page describing regulations for the Alagnak Wild River, Katmai National Park & Preserve, and Aniakchak National Monument and Preserve.

    The NPS manages about 67 miles of the Alagnak. Section 601 of the 1980 Alaska Lands Act describes the portion inside Katmai National Preserve, while Section 603 describes the portion generally west of the preserve boundary. The western boundary of the wild river is Township 13 South, Range 43 West. Also, as you probably know, a fair amount of the land along the river is privately owned.

    If you want to contact the NPS office in King Salmon, the number is 246-3305. For questions regarding enforcement practices, ask to speak to the chief ranger.

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    toofewweekends. Thanks for a great reply. That was exactly what I was looking for.
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    Member danattherock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phish Finder View Post

    Does NPS enforcement have a right to harass fishermen on the Alagnak?


    Apparently.


    Get your butt down here.

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