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Thread: Night Operations (A fish out of water)

  1. #1

    Default Night Operations (A fish out of water)

    Every year I aspire to refresh/learn skills for night movement without the aid of artificial light. There is a narrow period in early fall in the arctic to practice this skill-set. Once the snow is on the ground then it is easy to night travel, as the footing is better than mud and slippery tree roots, but mostly it is the reflected light off the snow and the contrast between dark trees and light snow covered ground.

    I am always shocked at how hard night travel is, OK it is more than hard, it is nearly impossible. Last night in the dark and drizzling rain I learned that I should have worn my caulk boots (Spike/nail boots) knee pads, safety glasses, gloves and a (much) less cumbersome firearm.

    Early on last night I encountered a eight foot Brown Bear (Grizzly) and a very small Black Bear. As it got darker and darker, and as I slowly remembered how stupid (Nearly impossible) this drill is, I decided to abort travel in the woods where I had mostly been studying the application (Usefulness) of my new illuminated scope for twilight/no light operations, concluding that it was NOT worth the additional cost. Yes it works, but so does a German #4 Reticle work just as good and without the dependence on batteries.

    Being soaked from the rain, I figured to go all out and moved out onto the not so dark Turnagain Arm mud flats estuary and study the Brown Bear as it gorged on silver salmon. The stench of rotting salmon, and decomposing vegetation was both nauseating and distracting, so that I had to remind myself to ignore the stench, and concentrate on the bear (which it was too dark to see). I was less than 40 yards from the bear but I could just see my feet and maybe four or five feet in from of me. I could hear the bear walking on the same muddy soup, but I could not tell which direction it was moving, however it was not moving towards me. Having learned and relearned enough I decided to return to the dark, dark, dark dark forest and the hike to the cabin. My clothes stunk so bad that I had to undress outside.

    Note: I have been doing this drill several times every fall for about 6 years now. And every year I get the same feed'back: "Well if you just close your eyes for a period of time, when you open yours eyes then you can see great". Bull'Chit

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    Moose do not travel at night with no moon and there eye site is 1000 time better than human, what chance to you have? Sounds like you need a night vision scope. If you have been doing it for 6 years and you still canít see why are you still doing it?

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rutting Moose View Post
    Moose do not travel at night with no moon and there eye site is 1000 time better than human, what chance to you have? Sounds like you need a night vision scope. If you have been doing it for 6 years and you still canít see why are you still doing it?
    It is part of Wilderness Survival training, (And I don't have a Television). Some of us (Tinfoil hat/wacko's) train for a unknown future. At age 65 I am just as interested in what I can do with my body, as well as knowing it's limitations. Like Inspector Harry Callahan said, "A man has simply GOT to know his limits".

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    Member ironartist's Avatar
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    I don't know where you say moose don't travel after dark, I have hung out in my large stand many many all nighters and hear moose all the time. I had a hearded up bunch cross the river and head to the thickets it was so black and it didn't sound to me like they were having any problems what so ever.
    And to you AGL man it's nice to know I am not the only one here with your mindset, if something does happen goofy it's good to know there are guys around we know we can get with to help survive bad situations. If you ever make it up to the valley I would like to get together and learn a bit of what you might have to share
    Visions Steel/841-WELD(9353)
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    It's great to know I'm not the only one who does this! I practice both night operations and blinded operations, but I do make a point of practicing away from salmon streams, berry patches, and cliffs.

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    I did not say moose do not travel at night what i said was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rutting Moose View Post
    Moose do not travel at night with no moon and there eye site is 1000 time better than human
    There is a different and yes moose do feed and talk at night. Do you know what there saying?

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rutting Moose View Post
    Do you know what there saying?
    Her: "Nice Rack big boy"
    Him: "You are one homely heifer"
    Her: "Are you kidding, I've seen those cows you hang with"
    Him: "Well, come up to my meadow sometime, baby"
    Her: "NOway..........pee breath"

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    Member ironartist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rutting Moose View Post
    I did not say moose do not travel at night what i said was.



    There is a different and yes moose do feed and talk at night. Do you know what there saying?
    "Moose do not travel at night with no moon and there eye site is 1000 time better than human"

    I must have been mistaken being dislexic and all
    Visions Steel/841-WELD(9353)
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    And every year I get the same feed'back: "Well if you just close your eyes for a period of time, when you open yours eyes then you can see great". Bull'Chit
    the short answer is without light you can't see.

    most know a bit about the color spectrum and that light travels in waves, but the color black is actually an absence of waves, so in effect nothing or no waves for the cornea to intrepret. the close your eyes for a minute theroy is to allow the regulator of the flow of light (the pupils ) to constrict or get big.

    therefore it don't matter how many times you blink your eyes in the dark, it is still dark and you can't see without light waves, or you may have some rods worn out in the back of your eyes
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  10. #10

    Default How to see without light

    Can't see without light? What we think we know ain't always so, so here are a few ways to see without light:

    Physics: Phosphenes are entoptic phenomena characterized by seeing light without light actually entering the eye, induced by mechanical, electrical, or magnetic stimulation.

    Quantum physics: The "quantum Zeno effect" has been experimentally demonstrated, in which the projection postulate makes it possible to see objects without photon interaction.

    Biology: Neuroscientists have created visual prosthetics to restore vision to people blinded in accidents through stimulation of the visual cortex.

    Chemistry: Even in the absence of light, Eigengrau or "dark light" is caused by the thermal isomerization of rhodopsin molecules in the retina.

    Anthropology: Use of psychedelic hallucinogens can make ya see chit that ain't there.

    Yoga: Some blindfolded Indian yogis have demonstrated "extra-retinal vision" or "seeing without eyes", similar to ESP.

    New Age: Some practice using the "third eye" to detect pranic energy, and various other metaphysical means to transcend the limitations of the senses.

    Buddhism: In Theravada Buddhism, the preliminary stage of dhyana meditation can include vivid mental imagery that appears as if seen by the eye while the eyes are closed.

    Etcetera.

  11. #11

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    Gold Star for Seraphina! I recall a National Geographic I was reading a few years back that had an article about a tribe deep in the Amazon. The men hunted monkeys with blowguns. Before the hunt the would cut a vine and drop it's juice in thier eyes, enabling them to see the forest with more texture/focus. That still has me baffled and wondering about what is possible when it comes to vision.

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    Member hooternanny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphina View Post
    Can't see without light? What we think we know ain't always so, so here are a few ways to see without light:

    Physics: Phosphenes are entoptic phenomena characterized by seeing light without light actually entering the eye, induced by mechanical, electrical, or magnetic stimulation.

    Quantum physics: The "quantum Zeno effect" has been experimentally demonstrated, in which the projection postulate makes it possible to see objects without photon interaction.

    Biology: Neuroscientists have created visual prosthetics to restore vision to people blinded in accidents through stimulation of the visual cortex.

    Chemistry: Even in the absence of light, Eigengrau or "dark light" is caused by the thermal isomerization of rhodopsin molecules in the retina.

    Anthropology: Use of psychedelic hallucinogens can make ya see chit that ain't there.

    Yoga: Some blindfolded Indian yogis have demonstrated "extra-retinal vision" or "seeing without eyes", similar to ESP.

    New Age: Some practice using the "third eye" to detect pranic energy, and various other metaphysical means to transcend the limitations of the senses.

    Buddhism: In Theravada Buddhism, the preliminary stage of dhyana meditation can include vivid mental imagery that appears as if seen by the eye while the eyes are closed.

    Etcetera.
    wow, i am speachless after reading and re-reading this.........AGL, i wish you luck in finding answers to seeing under the shadow of the sun
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    Quote Originally Posted by hooternanny View Post
    wow, i am speachless after reading and re-reading this.........
    Wow, I left hooternanny speechless??? Now THAT was quite an accomplishment!!! <wink>

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    Member hooternanny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphina View Post
    Wow, I left hooternanny speechless??? Now THAT was quite an accomplishment!!! <wink>
    you may think it's funny, and it may be funny. i may even have repped you because it was funny, but if it is not funny, it's not funny.
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    Could part of the problem be age, and our life stile, living with artificial light cannot help and looking at a computer for hours at a time is not good for the eyes. One thing you could try is use red lights in your cabin they did that in the submarine before surfacing at night in ww2 to help with night vision. Another thing is cover your good eye for several hours before going outside and then switch the eye patch.

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    Member hooternanny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rutting Moose View Post
    Could part of the problem be age, and our life stile, living with artificial light cannot help and looking at a computer for hours at a time is not good for the eyes. One thing you could try is use red lights in your cabin they did that in the submarine before surfacing at night in ww2 to help with night vision. Another thing is cover your good eye for several hours before going outside and then switch the eye patch.
    switch the eyepatch to me means check your rep box. frigginhillarious

    actually in the back of the eye there are rods and cones, the cones do color,, the rods do black and white or sun and dark. the lack of light waves i refer to is like a shadow, how light waves are blocked, or how how no light waves get through. that is why i said the op (especially at 65 yrs young ) may have some rods out. that is quite common, rods to go out. and rods are used for low/dim light signals to the brain. a real doctor could tell you

    of course some of the halucinations tactics, posted by other may be in order. i can varify that i have seen some strange thing's at times of altered consciousness. maybe if AGL finds some special mushrooms he could try the manuver with all three eye patches on-

    the third bein the brown one
    edit signature here

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    Quote Originally Posted by hooternanny View Post
    switch the eyepatch to me means check your rep box. frigginhillarious

    actually in the back of the eye there are rods and cones, the cones do color,, the rods do black and white or sun and dark. the lack of light waves i refer to is like a shadow, how light waves are blocked, or how how no light waves get through. that is why i said the op (especially at 65 yrs young ) may have some rods out.
    Well, I ain't walking around in the dark playing "Kissie'face" with a Brown Bear, and having "MY" rod out......

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    Member Akheloce's Avatar
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    Since my great uncle told me that he always closed his shooting eye whenever the North Koreans/ Chinese lit up a WP round, or lighting a cigarette, Ive alwayse done the same.. at least with cigarettes... the Iraqis and Afghanis never launched willy-pete rounds over us...
    I've since learned, and experienced that smoking causes a DEFINITE loss in night vision for the smoker... not just the lighter flicking, but the inability for the rods in the eyeball to focus on low light objects. Last night, I was flying in my brother's cessna 172, and I had a hell of a time seeing object that he saw (Im a smoker). With my job, I have unlimited use of Night Vision Goggles, and never really appreciated how much my night vision suffers as a smoker. I would advise any of you who really care about night vision acuity to either get a source of NVG's, or quit smoking... (I have NVG'S) ....lol

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