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Thread: Another mid-air

  1. #1
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    Default Another mid-air

    Two commercial operators.
    Another tragedy

    http://www.adn.com/2011/09/02/204628...report-of.html
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    Member alaskabliss's Avatar
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    And now I know why my instructor is so anal about clear left turn left, clear right turn right and so on.

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    Oddly enough, I think most midairs occur between two planes that are flying straight, possibly climbing or descending but not turning. The insidious thing about that is that if a midair is in the making, the planes appear stationary to each other...no relative motion, consequently less visible.

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    Default straight into one another

    Quote Originally Posted by Monguse View Post
    Oddly enough, I think most midairs occur between two planes that are flying straight
    While I gave up small plane flying long ago, I still run into a somewhat similar situation all too often in my 15 HP powered canoe.

    With so much water per boat, it amazes me how often I find myself while keeping true to a landmark dead ahead, I also find myself on a 5-10 minutes away from collision course with another boat that will not veer off. My usual course of action is to first keep track of distances - don't let us come too close - second, remember the rules of the road/water, and third of all, no matter who's got the right of way, if we're still on a collision course, I'll pick a new destination on the horizon; straight beyond/above my imminent-collision boat. Which, of course, puts us on a non collision course, since by the time I get there, they've gone quite a bit forward and I merely cross their wake.

    Then I reset my landmark to head towards where I'm actually going. I was taught long ago that it doesn't pay to have the legal right of way and still end up dead.

  5. #5
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    My prayers go out to the families of those involved.

    No speculation as to fault or cause, but it's just a very sobering reminder of good position reporting on CTAF. It's far too easy to spend excessive amounts of time staring at whatever cool glass display is inside the cockpit. In Southwestern Alaska with Capstone, most aircraft are displayed on the MFD, but not all, and the signals drop a lot. Eyes out of the cockpit and position reports are what works.

    Stay alert fellow aviators.

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    From the ADN

    Sprague, who lives in Idaho, told Johnson that Veal was her boyfriend, the investigator said.

    Both en-route to Bethel.

    "They meet up in the air," Johnson said. "There's some maneuvering that's done en route at about 1,200 feet (above sea level). The 207 pilot loses track of where the 208 is."
    Sprague remembered saying something over the radio to the effect of "I can't see you, Scott."
    "The next thing she knows is his airplane strikes her right wing, and nearly severs the right wing," Johnson said.
    They were maybe 800 feet above the ground, Johnson said.
    The bigger plane passed underneath the 207 and came out on the left side of it, Johnson said. Sprague saw it spiral down, hit the tundra, and burst into flames, Johnson said. It happened just after 1:30 p.m., he said, earlier than what troopers initially reported.
    With one wing seriously damaged, Sprague had limited control of the plane, Johnson said. She made an emergency landing on soft rolling tundra, maybe a mile away. She wasn't hurt."
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    Sprague, who lives in Idaho, told Johnson that Veal was her boyfriend, the investigator said.
    I knew this the day after it happened, but didn't want to spread any rumors. I have a friend that was friends with the two pilots involved and he is obviously devastated. Sounds like they were meeting up to fly back to Bethel and made a tragic mistake.
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  8. #8

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    There must not be enough barriers to entry in the aviation world these days if there are so many planes flying around running into each other on a weekly or monthly basis. Its not enough to get a pilots licence and a plane these days to get away from people.

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    There is no reason to insinuate that the two involved pilots were in any way unqualified. They made a mistake, they paid dearly for it.
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  10. #10

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    I guess what im trying to say is if everybody and their brother were not out flying around there would be less chances for colisions like this. There must not be enough barriers to entry to the aviation community, otherwise the opprotunities for these accidents would not even be there.

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    How many more barriers do we need? General aviation is already dieing and getting into it has plenty of barriers. This isn't like two low hour LSA pilots ran into each other. These were pilots with commercial licenses and probably more hours than most of you private guys will ever see in the air. The last crash at Amber lake involved a high hour commercial jet pilot and a fairly experienced private pilot.
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  12. #12

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    These places like amber lake become the new russian river for aviators, everyone wants a sweet lake with nice fishing away from people. But when there are too many people with air planes its like combat fishing all over again, with people crashing like this due to new "russian rivers" the FAA is going to start cranking down. It does not matter if someone has a 1000 hours there are simply too many planes flying around. I remember when I was training for my licence and was out mistakenly one sat afternoon when the weather was breath taking and just getting around the pattern was beyond stressful and I was not having fun anymore. But isent going out on a breathtaking sat afternoon/morning the pinical of flying .... not when everyone else thinks so too and has the means to buy air planes. I was joking with a guy at work that now I need a space ship to get the heck away from people.

    Having an air plane and a licence back in the day used to buy you freedom because maybe 2% or less of alaskans had a licence, now its something like 10%. Now too many people have planes and are flying around and the results are deadly, now no one can get upset when they start putting up class D air space everywhere and controlled air space and having user fees to use amber lake in the next 10 years. I am sticking to pavement and aerobatics because as soon as the fish are in and its a beautiful day there will be a bigillion float planes buzzing around and more fatalities, flying floats in alaska is more deadly than aerobatics lol.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by rppearso View Post
    I guess what im trying to say is if everybody and their brother were not out flying around there would be less chances for colisions like this. There must not be enough barriers to entry to the aviation community, otherwise the opprotunities for these accidents would not even be there.
    Pretty harsh talk from someone who just got his private in July and considered unlicensed flying because he couldn't master high bank turns.

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    Amber Lake is basically a residential area and the tragic midair that occurred there has nothing to do with the midair in Lake Clark pass or the formation-flying midair that just occurred out by Bethel.
    All have odd human caused circumstances (only one was a pair of float-planes) and for the most part all those pilots have more time waiting for the oil to warm up, than you have total time, so you would think they could have avoided the situation.
    But only a fool second guesses what happens to other pilots during the one to two seconds it takes for a crash to happen.

    Are there too many people in the State now? Yes. But there is nothing short of the Black Plague that can be done about it.
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    I think it is harsh to say want the FAA to minimize how many pilots are flying around. I am just a student pilot and I admit no where near as educated as some of you guys but I would think that in this state pilots have been real relaxed when using the radio. If pilots started using the radio more and announced there intentions even in the remote areas and announced positions more than it could help reduce the chance of some midair collisions. It is amazing how fast things can happen in a plane. With all my right seat flting I have done in the years I have seen some crazy stuff and alot of it is preventable by using the radio. Why is it that a busy airport can avoid stuff like this? I'm not just talking commercial planes either.
    By making a statement about if everyone and there brothers weren't flying around it would reduce the chances is not the best way to resolve the problem. Everyone and there brother has the same right to earn the same privilage to be in the skys. Don't add more regulation, pilots just need to polish up on the existing ones and use good judgment on communications. I used to think it was silly to announce position when out flying, now I see it is a requirement. But I am still new and easily trained...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Float Pilot View Post
    and for the most part all those pilots have more time waiting for the oil to warm up, than you have total time, so
    No matter what you believe......THAT'S FUNNY!

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    Quote Originally Posted by rppearso View Post
    I guess what im trying to say is if everybody and their brother were not out flying around there would be less chances for colisions like this. There must not be enough barriers to entry to the aviation community, otherwise the opprotunities for these accidents would not even be there.
    Most mid-air collisions occur between the two airplanes many miles from any others, and most often in excellent weather conditions. Your assessment is pure conjecture with no basis in factual data. Where there is congestion and lots of air traffic along any route or in any area, mid-air collisions rarely occur.

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    There's been a definite increase in useless radio calls lately. I can't imagine its helping safety. There are so many random/unimportant position reports made I don't pay attention most of the time. Same happens when guys get into private conversations on CTAF. I turn the radio off. Which, by the way, is completely legal. There is no requirement for radios or position lights in the vast majority of airspace and lots of guys operate regularly without them even if their planes are equipped with them. It isn't their responsibility to inform the world of their every move. Its my responsibility to see what's around me and maintain separation.

  19. #19
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    Having an air plane and a licence back in the day used to buy you freedom because maybe 2% or less of alaskans had a licence, now its something like 10%
    When was "back in the day"? I don't know where you get your numbers, but there was a far higher percentage of licensed pilots in the 70's up here than there are now. The 2006 numbers were right at 1 pilot for every 64 residents.
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  20. #20

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    If these accidents keep happening you will see more class D controled air space and more FAA crack downs on equipment checks. Also bienniels are likely to start getting a whole lot stricter.

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