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Thread: Muddox, what a sad piece of equipment

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    Member MaximumPenetration's Avatar
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    Default Muddox, what a sad piece of equipment

    So, my hunting buddy shelled out 27k on a new muddox this year so we could go into some serious backcountry. Well, with 20 hours on it, the coupling from engine to hydraulic pumps failed. Luckily my buddy was only 3 miles off the road on a caribou hunt before our big moose hunt. So the Alaska muddox dealer had a new coupling sent up, installed it at their shop in anchorage, and my buddy went back out to test it out. Half hour off the road, the coupling failed again. The sad thing is, the dealer in anchorage doesn't even have a service manual to work out of. Steer clear of these machines.
    An unarmed man is subject, an armed man is a citizen.

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    Wow this is the first bad thing I have heard about the
    mudd-ox.I am on the fence right now thinking of throwing down on a new diesel model.

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    Member Roger's Avatar
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    That's why I love ARGOS
    PEOPLE SAY I HAVE A.D.D I DON'T UNDERSTA.....OH LOOK A MOOSE !!!

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    Member Dirtofak's Avatar
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    If it is a Lovejoy style coupling.... you have a bigger problem. The Lovejoy is just telling you about it. It could be alignment, broken motor mount, failing hydraulic pump or mounting.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    Bill Hicks

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Clearly there is a problem that is stressing that part and causing it to fail. Odds are that the part failing is a symptom of the root problem and not the actual issue. Every manufacturer of every machine has mechanical issues at some point but it seems rash to call the mud-ox junk based on this malfunction. I am sure it is frustrating buy hopefully they will get it sorted out the second time around.

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    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    Yeah Roger... we all know Argos never break

    LuJon and Dirt are absolutely correct. It's unfortunate the dealer couldn't diagnose the problem properly. I own all kinds of heavy equipment. At times it's unbelievable how something simple at the factory can sink you on a $75,000 piece of equipment. The belts wouldn't stay on my Cat 416 backhoe because of a bad pulley from the factory. I didn't call Cat a piece of junk because of that. The dealer mechanic and I figured it out and fixed it.

    I wonder how Stid's Muddox is working out. He sure seemed to like it last year.
    Bunny Boots and Bearcats: Utility Sled Mayhem

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    Member ARGONUT's Avatar
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    they are having moter issues as well. I knew a guy that was trying to sell one with a dealer refurbished moter that only had 100 or less hours on it. and that was one of his selling points!!! Don't think I'd be bragging about a refurbished moter with those low of hours
    He who don't float. Don't follow the ARGO!

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    Member MaximumPenetration's Avatar
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    My buddy told me on the phone last night that there's no way he would take this machine back deep in the woods after the failures it has experienced. That's the biggest problem, confidence. This particular muddox has a stigma now. And frankly, a bad pulley on a cat doesn't equate to being stuck way back in the woods with a broken muddox. Warranty doesn't matter on equipment like muddox and Argo. Reliability does, and the one my buddy got doesn't do what they said it would.
    An unarmed man is subject, an armed man is a citizen.

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    Member Fishhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximumPenetration View Post
    So, my hunting buddy shelled out 27k on a new muddox this year so we could go into some serious backcountry. Well, with 20 hours on it, the coupling from engine to hydraulic pumps failed. Luckily my buddy was only 3 miles off the road on a caribou hunt before our big moose hunt. So the Alaska muddox dealer had a new coupling sent up, installed it at their shop in anchorage, and my buddy went back out to test it out. Half hour off the road, the coupling failed again. The sad thing is, the dealer in anchorage doesn't even have a service manual to work out of. Steer clear of these machines.
    It is unfortunate about your buddy and nothing I am going to say changes the fact that he is broke down in the sticks for the second time. I was sick to my stomach when your buddy called me last night to say the coupler had failed again. So, I understand your hostility toward Mudd-Ox but there seems to be a lot left out of this second hand story. We pushed back our planned hunting trip two days and worked round the clock to get him back up and running. Obviously there is a different exclusive issue with that machine we need to diagnose because of the second failure but that doesn't change the fact that we tried to give him the best customer service possible. I allowed your buddy to stand right over top of us as we worked so he could learn a little more about his machine. I showed him the Manufacturer's coupler install instructions I was working from and he acknowledged they were there by saying "I can't read that without my glasses". I am truly sorry for the inconvenience this has caused you guys and the only reason I am not canceling my trip to work on that machine is the machine isn't coming back in from chicken until after hunting season. Which I completely understand because of the distance and timing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ARGONUT View Post
    they are having moter issues as well. I knew a guy that was trying to sell one with a dealer refurbished moter that only had 100 or less hours on it. and that was one of his selling points!!! Don't think I'd be bragging about a refurbished moter with those low of hours
    You really have no idea what your taking about and are just taking a stab at piling on. Do a little research before you wax intellectually about mudd-ox. You constantly have an opinion of a rig that you have admittedly never driven. I can understand liking your argo but you make comments and recommendations on the mudd-ox based on what?....us showing them to you at the sportsmans show? The refurbished machines are coming from the canadian oil field contract and refurbished is in reference to new chains, axles, bearings, retrofitting the latest standard equipment, and making any necessary repairs to make the machine operational. "Refurbished" has nothing to do with the engine that is in them and I cannot help how someone mislabels/misreads a craigslist post. Next time before you "throw darts at the board" do a little grunt work and stop making assumptions from your computer; there will be far less holes in your arguments. The 40 hp kohler is just the bigger cousin of your 31 in your argo.

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    Not taking a stab at anything and din't compare it to an argo, so calm down just made a statement. Obviously you don't know much about them either if you can't even work on them. and Yes this time i am assuming that your the one up here selling them since you said "us." Pay attention your getting more and more issues brought up than just by me on the forums. Peaople make comments on brands everyday that differ from their own preferances, I don't see you attacking them. I have also welcomed you over to the frontier network forum and even updated it to give you your own column and forum page inside the network to boast brag and basically "sell" your machine. I'd love to see more positive interaction from ALL AATV owners argo mudd-ox and max alike. Come over and take a look for yourself. Great spot to have your own niche' in the online forums. Happy trails thefrontierforums.com/tracks. I have actually come to like the mudd-ox.
    He who don't float. Don't follow the ARGO!

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    So, what is the issue with the coupler? Is it a lovejoy style of coupling? If so, like Mike (dirtofak) said, the only way to really kill one is to have alignment issues with the pump and engine, or an actual failure of the pump. I have several around in various applications and never had one outright fail. Wear out, yes, but it gave plenty of signs before it failed.
    Bunny Boots and Bearcats: Utility Sled Mayhem

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    Member Dirtofak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKDoug View Post
    So, what is the issue with the coupler? Is it a lovejoy style of coupling? If so, like Mike (dirtofak) said, the only way to really kill one is to have alignment issues with the pump and engine, or an actual failure of the pump. I have several around in various applications and never had one outright fail. Wear out, yes, but it gave plenty of signs before it failed.
    How about some pics of the failed coupler? It would tell a lot.

    I have sold heavy equipment parts, troubleshot VIA the factory machines down with manufacturer engineers and filed/coordinated warranty. I understand that even brand new machines can have a glitch. Generally speaking, one fail in a remote area sucks all the profit out of a machine sale for both the dealer and manufacturer. It is the price of doing business.

    When and how the dealer and manufacturer corrects the problem can really change how the customer feels. How the failure is investigated and the results turned into prevention of future failures can effect future sales.

    Personally, I would have taken 2 couplers to a remote spot for a machine that had an early failure and given one to the owner as insurance in case of a second fail. They aren't that expensive. Generating a warranty claim for a couple hours of customer labor is much cheaper than sending a mechanic out and the machine is only down for a short time.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    Bill Hicks

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    Member MaximumPenetration's Avatar
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    Honestly Fishhunter, I don't think there is much you can do to help my buddy to be confident in a Muddox. Even if you guys fixed it again, we wouldn't be confident taking it back into a swamp. It's a real shame.
    An unarmed man is subject, an armed man is a citizen.

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    I don't see a reason to be worried about this issue once it is resolved. The bathtub curve is widely recognized amongs engineers in electrical and mechanical industry.


    http://www.itl.nist.gov/div898/handb...on1/apr124.htm

    Every single mechanical and electrical device can and will have failures. The key is getting through the first short period of time where manufacturing issues rear their head and into the long period of normal operation before mechanical and electrical parts begin to fail due to wear and tear. I would never buy a brand new machine and then take it way out into the boonies if I had any other choice. There are plenty of local areas to put some hours on a new machine to sort out any issues.

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    Member MaximumPenetration's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    I don't see a reason to be worried about this issue once it is resolved. The bathtub curve is widely recognized amongs engineers in electrical and mechanical industry.


    http://www.itl.nist.gov/div898/handb...on1/apr124.htm

    Every single mechanical and electrical device can and will have failures. The key is getting through the first short period of time where manufacturing issues rear their head and into the long period of normal operation before mechanical and electrical parts begin to fail due to wear and tear. I would never buy a brand new machine and then take it way out into the boonies if I had any other choice. There are plenty of local areas to put some hours on a new machine to sort out any issues.
    First off, I work with Engineers all the time. They are some of the dumbest individuals I have ever met. Doing equations in a class room and getting a big fancy degree does not equate to common sense.

    Second, he put 20 hours on the machine around home before taking it up for a caribou hunt and luckily it broke down close to the road. Now after fixing it once, he took it up and got 4 miles off the road before it broke again. He was essentially working out any kinks before our long range hunt that was supposed to start this weekend. In any case, he can't get a road vehicle back to it, so he will be waiting for me on my 4-wheeler or my 95 argo conquest. Either way, we will get that heap out of the field and he will be getting his money back.
    An unarmed man is subject, an armed man is a citizen.

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    Member EagleRiverDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximumPenetration View Post
    Either way, we will get that heap out of the field and he will be getting his money back.
    I'm curious if that is true. I'm not taking sides- I've got no skin in this game. Just following this contentious thread and I have to wonder if the dealer is legally obligated to take the rig back and return the buyers money, or if he is only obligated to handle the warranty repairs.

    One thing that might be tried is to discuss the coupling failure with the coupling manufacturer and ask them to diagnose the failure. Generally coupling manufacturers are willing to do this. I used to sell various couplings from different manufacturers when I worked for a local parts house and many couplings can be extremely sensitive to misalignment and thrust loads. A professional failure analysis on the coupling might at least provide some additional information on where to start looking. The thing about couplings is they generally are indicative of bigger problems to come both upstream and downstream of the coupling so fixing the root cause is paramount before more expensive things start to fail.
    "If snowmachiners would adopt the habits of riding one at a time and not parking at the base of avalanche prone slopes, the number of fatalities would likely be whittled by at least a third, if not by half." ~ Jill Fredston, in the book Snowstruck, In The Grip Of Avalanches.

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    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    A professional failure analysis on the coupling might at least provide some additional information on where to start looking.
    That would take an engineer and obviously MP doesn't like them
    Bunny Boots and Bearcats: Utility Sled Mayhem

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    Quote Originally Posted by ARGONUT View Post
    Not taking a stab at anything and din't compare it to an argo, so calm down just made a statement. Obviously you don't know much about them either if you can't even work on them. and Yes this time i am assuming that your the one up here selling them since you said "us." Pay attention your getting more and more issues brought up than just by me on the forums. Peaople make comments on brands everyday that differ from their own preferances, I don't see you attacking them. I have also welcomed you over to the frontier network forum and even updated it to give you your own column and forum page inside the network to boast brag and basically "sell" your machine. I'd love to see more positive interaction from ALL AATV owners argo mudd-ox and max alike. Come over and take a look for yourself. Great spot to have your own niche' in the online forums. Happy trails thefrontierforums.com/tracks. I have actually come to like the mudd-ox.
    First off it is pretty ignorant to generalize someones knowledge over a limited sample of online information. With that said the reason I have a problem with you piling on all the time is you have no experience with the machine. The guy you knew who was trying to sell one with a refurbished engine, does he live in alaska? Because I know everyone who owns one in this state and there have been no engine rebuilds. I am calling your bluff; I think you saw a craigslist post and misinterpreted it! I don't have a problem with people critiquing, reviewing, or making judgements about products that they have experience with. That is what the forum is for and that is why I am a member and was before I was involved with mudd-ox. You just seem to show up and take a jab at this machine on every thread it is mentioned in and you have admitted to me that you have not actually rid in one. So, that is why I take exception to your input because it is for the most part second hand regurgitated nonsense from someone without any credibility with the machine. Furthermore, I never said anything about you comparing these rigs to argos reread my post.
    And about your forum; you don't even spell the name of the machine right, so don't act like you have put all this effort into bring us in. You can't be negative all the time to someone and then expect to come off as non biased. I don't have a problem with you having a preference that is your choice and I was apart of the argo community before this. I do have a problem with you throwing out back handed slights and then saying "lets all be friends" because we are in the same niche.

  20. #20
    Member Fishhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtofak View Post
    How about some pics of the failed coupler? It would tell a lot.

    I have sold heavy equipment parts, troubleshot VIA the factory machines down with manufacturer engineers and filed/coordinated warranty. I understand that even brand new machines can have a glitch. Generally speaking, one fail in a remote area sucks all the profit out of a machine sale for both the dealer and manufacturer. It is the price of doing business.

    When and how the dealer and manufacturer corrects the problem can really change how the customer feels. How the failure is investigated and the results turned into prevention of future failures can effect future sales.

    Personally, I would have taken 2 couplers to a remote spot for a machine that had an early failure and given one to the owner as insurance in case of a second fail. They aren't that expensive. Generating a warranty claim for a couple hours of customer labor is much cheaper than sending a mechanic out and the machine is only down for a short time.
    I don't have pictures the coupler was over nighted to the manufacturer this morning.

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