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Thread: New motor lift design "Guillotine

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    Default New motor lift design "Guillotine

    I've been brain storming for months trying to come up with a lightweight, rugged lift design that mounts to any square stern canoe without requiring any holes drilled or modifications to the canoe. It is designed to be installed when you expect shallow water so it starts out with 4" of lift above the transom and raises to 8" maximum. It's under 20 pounds even with the 2" ball hitch handle (I thought that was a cool add-on) I still need to take a test run but I believe it will work as designed. Here's my prototype.
    DSCF1417.jpg DSCF1413.jpg Low position on the Esquif.

  2. #2

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    High position on the Esquif.

    DSCF1414.jpg Low position on the Mac18DSCF1411.jpg

  3. #3

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    High position on the Mac18.
    DSCF1410.jpg Rear in high position.DSCF1415.jpg

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    DSCF1416.jpgFront in high position.

  5. #5
    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Very nice design! I like how it keeps the motor directly on the back of the transom instead of hanging a foot or more off the back, an important thing with the smaller square sterns. Looks like you're all ready for moose season. When I observed all those welds last night, I must say that the lift is absolutely bomb-proof.

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    looks good keep us posted lots of questions but for now it looks good, SID

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    I like this design. Mainer's right. Keeping the motor close to, and in the same plane as the transom is important. What's the total rise from the original lowered level?

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    Default can't tell

    I too like the "close to transom" motor mount, but I can't tell from what you showed are the mechanics of the lift. How does it do what it does? Sorry if I missed the obvious, but I'd like to know, if you care to tell.

    Also, have you done field trials yet? Hitting some good sized rocks and also a good muddy/shallow bottom?

    Thanks in advance, if you want to show such stuff.

    Looks great, from what you posted.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by FamilyMan View Post
    I too like the "close to transom" motor mount, but I can't tell from what you showed are the mechanics of the lift. How does it do what it does? Sorry if I missed the obvious, but I'd like to know, if you care to tell.Also, have you done field trials yet? Hitting some good sized rocks and also a good muddy/shallow bottom?Thanks in advance, if you want to show such stuff. Looks great, from what you posted.
    I was wondering the same thing, but looked again at the last photo he posted. There is a cable/pully system. A stem sticks forward from the bar where the lift handle attaches. when rotated, the stem pulls (or releases) the cable which is attached to the part of the lift attached to the motor. The motor mount slides up/down on vertical rods on each side. Looks like an interesting design, but would like to hear more after field trials. One point of concern is that you could develope some friction or problems with the sliding action up/down if one of those rods gets bent from a hard hit or you develope some corrosion/rust in there. Most other lift designs rely on simple pivot point that are a bit more simple. It also looks (I could be wrong) like you are relying on the weight of the motor for it to lower. If there is anything keeping the motor from lowering, there is nothing you could do to "force" it down outside of reaching back and pushing down on the cowling of the motor itself. With other lifts, you could actually pull up on the lift handle, effectively forcing the engine down. This allows for more balance in the "trim" so it takes very little effort to lift the engine but you can still ensure it doesn't ride up when you don't want it to just by a slight pressure up on the handle. If you are relying on the weight of the engine as the only real way to keep the engine in the lowest position, then you will always have to overcome that weight to lift the engine. Great to see some new ideas in the designs. Anything that might result in a weight savings, especially on the extreme rear end of these freighters, is definitely something to look at. Hopefully the designer will keep us informed as to it's performace.

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    Default trim

    Quote Originally Posted by anchskier View Post
    It also looks (I could be wrong) like you are relying on the weight of the motor for it to lower. If there is anything keeping the motor from lowering, there is nothing you could do to "force" it down outside of reaching back and pushing down on the cowling of the motor itself.
    In particular, the force of the motor at full throttle could force it up? At least, I think it could; this is all theoretical; what are the facts?

    I echo again: Cool compact design, definitely the right transom distance, and my personal hope is that is does everything its intended to do.

  11. #11
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    After 10 + years of hitting HARD I wonder how the transom will hold up, the old stile lift will do it, as it don't ride on the transom, it rides on the lift that sit's on the back an pushes from middle of the canoe , only time will tell how it will hold up on the new larger canoes what else do they have for a lift to use,
    Sid

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by FamilyMan View Post
    In particular, the force of the motor at full throttle could force it up? At least, I think it could; this is all theoretical; what are the facts?
    Naw, the 'force' or torque is coming from 18" down.

  13. #13

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    It definitely needs to be field tested to answer some of the questions. Yes, the lift relies on the weight of the motor to lower it back down. There is nothing holding the motor down so it could raise on its own but I don't think it will due to the friction created between the sliding parts. I think a guy can force it up under power but I bet it will be much easier to release throttle/lift/apply throttle again. I suspect the operator will have to release the throttle for it to fall back down after lifting. If something bumps the motor up I usually come off the throttle anyway. It does take more force to push the handle down than the lever style lifts but it's not bad. It's possible the rods could get dirty and jam but this should get better after it's been used and broken in. Rust will be a problem but a light coat of grease after each use should solve that problem. I did put a zirk fitting on the handle lever section but drilled the hole too big and it popped out on my last squirt. I chem brush works welll to grease the rods and sliding surfaces. Tolerances are tight and I did grease the rods and surfaces after I finished the welds. As for bending the rods? Doubtful, and here's why. The 1/2" rods are very strong but would bend if used alone. They slide through sections of 1/2" pipe which is welded to the square tubing. The top and bottom pipes are welded to side the motor is on. The rods are welded to those top and bottom pipes. This creates a "truss" with the square tubing. This truss is super strong by itself but is also supported buy the pipe sections. Pressure from he motor transfers to the sliding side square tubing and then to the 6 or 8 pipe sections and then to the stationary square tubing and then to the transom. The bars are just there to provide a sliding mechanism and alignment. The motor side sliding section always has 6 pipe sections separating it from the stationary side on the transom. At full height (8") there is approximately 4" of bar and tubing that is unsupported on top but the majority of the lift is still supported. I could be wrong but I think it would take a real solid "crash" to bend that 4". A crash so hard that it would cause damage elsewhere on the canoe. If the motor is up in the top position then not much prop/skeg is below the canoe. A fella should be slowing down if he thinks he needs to raise it this high. The cable is 3/16" and overkill for lifting the motor.

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    ....ZACK ...... I was not talking about the running force, I was talking about the sudden force you get when hitting a few rocks / logs / ..stumps .. under full power, an the ENG. bounces up, as this will happen no matter how good you are,

  15. #15

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    Sid, you may have a point on the longevity issue. I built it as wide as possible to spread the pressure. The screw tighteners are about 1 1/2" diameter washers and I welded a cross member that spreads the forward pressure equally across the transom about 4" down from the top. There shouldn't be much difference in the stress of the transom with the lift on in the low position. I wouldn't think the stress would be much more than the permanent lift that Mainer and Familyman built on FM's Albany. Maybe less since the pressure will be transferred to the center of the transom. I dunno? The 20 pounds of addition weight might effect longevity but when used with a 2 stroke 9.9 or the Tohatsu 9.8 four stroke it equals the weight of any standard 9.9 four stroke made by Merc, Honda, Yamaha, or Suzuki without the lift. The transoms on my Esquif looks weak because it's covered with plastic but it is stout. The Mac 18 is very solid by design. Both are repairable in the field with a small fiberglass kit. The weak point of the Esquif is the oil canning of the floor. If you want to open up the throttle then you'd better have the canoe full of meat or the floor will roll like a wave machine. The Mac 18 is kevlar and very stiff. No oil canning at full throttle. I wouldn't want to go blasting up or down rocky rapids with it. It won't take impacts like the rolex but the Mac 18 is noticeably lighter and easier to portage. There are always tradeoffs. Nothing is ever perfect....except my wife of 24 years. (grin)

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by FamilyMan View Post
    In particular, the force of the motor at full throttle could force it up? At least, I think it could; this is all theoretical; what are the facts?I echo again: Cool compact design, definitely the right transom distance, and my personal hope is that is does everything its intended to do.
    I can't say how others work it, but we "trim" the motors so all it takes is about a finger or two to lift the engine. When running at higher speeds, we want the motor to bounce up as easily as possible if we happen to hit something. By adjusting the angle of the motor on the mount, you actually have the prop pushing down and back, thus there is force from that actually pushing up a bit on the front of the motor. At times, when running in light weeks or bouncy water, the motor can lift itself up or at least bounce up on it's own slightly, where you just want to rest your shoulder on the handle or something like that to counter it. With a cable lift system, there is no way to "push" the motor down if you find it riding up on it's own.

  17. #17
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    Back after the hurricane....I had an idea in the back of my head that would sit inside the transom using vertical channels (1 1/2" inside) on each side and a device similiar to a VW scissors jack that would sit parallel to the transom to move a block up an down to change height of the motor giving infinite adjustments via a crank handle. I'm still playing with the idea but have shelved it for now. I think the concept is sound but it may be unnecessarily complicated when compared to the lifts currently in use. I may get some material this winter and see if I can make the idea work on my Cargo.

  18. #18

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    Thank you all for the constructive criticism. The biggest comment and issue I took away was the lift needed the ability to also push the motor down if it rises up. I scrapped the pulley and cable and figured out a way to adapt the lever. She needs a paint job and grease but here's the redesigned prototype.

    Down DSCF1418.jpg Up DSCF1419.jpg

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    Nicely done! I am sure there is a market for them should you decide to either manufacture them or sell the plans.

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