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Thread: Model 70 300 WSM still not grouping after gunsmithing work!!!!!!

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    Member billy jack's Avatar
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    Default Model 70 300 WSM still not grouping after gunsmithing work!!!!!!

    I recently posted a thread on my model 70 300 WSM not grouping consistantly. I took it down to Wild West Guns and they did a dandy job and a quick turn around on my rifle. They removed copper fouling, free floated the barrel and glass bedded the action. I thought it would be a cure all, but I fired the rest of my 180 grainers to include Core Lokts, Win Ballistic Silvertips and come hand loads. Best I got was 5" at 180 yds and about 2" at 100 yds. and that's grouping with each type of ammo. I had a buddy pick up some 150 gr Winchesters yesterday at Sportsmans. Well I cleaned her up and took it to the range today and fired 6 150 grain Winchester power points 3 at 100 yds, grouped about 2.5" and 3 at 180 yds and grouped 6". I have no idea what the hell is going on with that rifle but I'm looking at selling it since I can't group with it. I'm not jerkng the trigger, I got a good rest and am doing everything right. I had 2 300 win mags in Kodiak that would group 2"-2.5" at 200 yds all day but I got rid of em cause I don't like long actions. What's the next solution? I have a Burris FullField II on it that I bought new 1 yr ago. The rifle I bought 2 yrs ago used on Gunbroker. It's about 8 yrs old but like new condition, barrel looks crisp? If anyone has any ideas please chime in.

    Thanks Billy
    It's a Jeep thing, you wouldn't understand.

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Have you tried a different scope on it?

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    I need to see the targets, or get a descrip of what the groups look like. Three shot or five shot? Also, technique...I recently had a scenario whre I had a 1/3 MOA rifle that opened up to 1-2 inches...reason...idiot me was letting the barrel touch the rest...are you using a rest, sling or whatnot.

    More info please

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    Member billy jack's Avatar
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    Groups look like a 12 ga blast. No consistency at all. None all left or right of high like they taught me in small arms instructor school, just all around the bull. I'll literally get on close to bull, one 2" left and one 3" high right, or dead low, looks like a scatter gun hit it. shooting 3 shot groups so not to heat up the featherweight barrel. I'm not resting the rifle barrel on anything. I'm not using the sling. I got a bench rest and a shooting bag in the mail as we speak to eliminate any human error. frusterating as all hell.
    It's a Jeep thing, you wouldn't understand.

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    Member TWB's Avatar
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    Stupid question but have you let someone else shoot it?

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    Member billy jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TWB View Post
    Stupid question but have you let someone else shoot it?

    No but thats what i'm gonna do tomorrow, my buddy has a Model 70 300 WSM Xtreme Weather featherweight and I'm gonna shoot it and let him shoot mine.
    It's a Jeep thing, you wouldn't understand.

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    Member Dirtofak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TWB View Post
    Stupid question but have you let someone else shoot it?
    This is how we found a problem with a buddy back in the day with a Browning A-Bolt. He was afraid of the gun after getting a scope ring on his forehead. I shot it, no problems. Still didn't like the gun, but it shot fine.

    Take a different scope with you. If you still have the problem, swap it out, and bring the target in to 25 or 50 yeard max. See how it groups. I assume that WWG inspected the scope mounts and aligned the crosshairs. Good luck.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
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    Member billy jack's Avatar
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    Went to clean it just now and again it is heavily fouled with copper. Shined a light in thru the muzzle and there's bright copper streaks on both the lands and grooves from crown down a couple inches into the barrel from what i can see ? I've never had copper fouling before or accuracy issues like this. New barrel????? I used the wipe out copper remover I bought from WWG after the 3 different loads a few days ago and got her all cleaned out. Bore was clean when I went to range today. 6 shots and copper fouled up? ***?????
    It's a Jeep thing, you wouldn't understand.

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    I was reading a post the other day about someone with the same problems, I don't remember where it was, could have been snipershide or long range hunter. The problem was, they eventually found out, that the barrel had not been tightened down enough to the action, so when they shot the pressure would cause the barrel to move. Might be worth a check.

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    Two inch groups at 100 yards for a factory rifle with a stock barrel is not really that unusual. Some rifles will do better, some not so good. With the exception of Savage or Cooper rifles it is a rare rifle indeed that will put all 5 under an inch at 100 yards.

    First thing I would do is spend a day or so removing the copper fouling then go from there. Could you please describe your bench rest technique and what type of rest are you using?

    Is the barrel free floated or does it have pressure on the forearm? Loosen the action screws one at a time and see if the barrel moves.
    Tennessee

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    Billy...decopper that baby, then fire one fouling shot. Then, stuff a matchbook under the barrel at the forend tip and try some upward pressure.

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildalaska View Post
    Billy...decopper that baby, then fire one fouling shot. Then, stuff a matchbook under the barrel at the forend tip and try some upward pressure.
    Glad to see this as it was what I was going to suggest.

    As far as factory accuracy... My Tikka is MOA or better as is my buddies new vanguard and another friends Marlin XS7 as well as one Hawkeye 375 Ruger... There seems to be lots of MOA accurate rifles pouring out of the factories these days and plenty of them are on the "bottom tier" of the price scale!!

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    shot in the dark what does the crown look like? maybe it was dinged, a bad crown well make anygun shoot like crap. I had a 25-284 it shot less than 1/4 groups then one day it all went to hell. I tried everything I cleaned and cleaned with the old standrad hoppes #9 and what not. Finally bought some of that montana bore cleaner yeah that long ago and I ran patch after patch until they no longer cam out blue. that thign was so badly copper fouled it was no joke. After that now I use foam let it sit in the barrel for about 20 minutes run a brush down the tube then a patch. then I run some of that gunslick copper reomover down it until the patches come out nice and clean then I spray a patch with rem oil and run it down the barrel.

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    the crown is fine

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    Member Matt's Avatar
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    Sounds like a crap factory barrel. Excessive copper fouling is one clue. I'd rebarrel.

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    I would try another scope before selling it...

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    I would suspect a rough barrel that fouls after a few shots and starts affecting accuracy. I would make sure it is copper free and use a boreguide and correct jag and use some JB bore paste on it and polish it real good.

    I also clean my rifles at the range, they are so much easier to clean when the barrel is still warm.

    Try firing 3 rounds and cleaning good and firing another group of 3 and see how they group.

    I would also try a Barnes TSX load, they like a lot of jump and shoot good in almost anything I ever fed them to and they just plain kill stuff.

    Good luck

    Steve
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    Member billy jack's Avatar
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    Gonna Take Wildalaska's advice, on wedging cardboard between barrel and forend to make constant pressure, fire a few and the see what that does. I called Winchester and told them my story, they said to return it and the may replace the barrel or replace the rifle.
    Going to the local smith in Seward (Seward Gunworks) after the range and pick his brain too.
    It's a Jeep thing, you wouldn't understand.

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    If I missed it I apologize, but how did the rifle perform before it went to the gunsmith? Just seeing copper streaks doesn't mean it becomes inaccurate. In either case, I wouldn't spend a lot of time on it if Winchester is that accommodating. Keep us posted.

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    Try a new scope. I'm suspicious of anything made by burris.

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