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Thread: how rare is a 4 brow tine bull?

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    Default how rare is a 4 brow tine bull?

    With the new law on the kenai, stating either 50 inches or 4 brow tines, what is everyones opinion on likely hood of 4 browtines?

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    In my opinion the number of brow tines is more closely tied to the genetics lineage of the geographic area than to the size of the antler spread or to some extent even the age of the bull. In some areas of Alaska 5 brow tines are common. However the Kenai Peninsula is NOT one of those areas. It was/is hard to find a sub 50" moose with 3 brow tines in this area.

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    I am not sure about the Kenai, but I know that in Unit 13 it is common to see 40"+ bulls that have four well defined tines. That is one area that we hunt in that we take the time to look at every bull. We learned that several years ago. We had passed up on a bull that looked in the mid 40" range only to have another couple hunter shoot it. It did have four tine, we just did not look close enough.

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    I've heard from bios it's at least 10 times rarer than a 3 brow tine bull.
    So for every 10 3 brow tiner you might see one.
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    I have done a lot of hiking in the Kenai Mts. this summer, and seen a lot of bears, but not one moose of any size, shape or gender. Also seen very few moose tracks.

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    I haven't seen a moose with 4 brow tines in the area I hunt in 13 in years. In '94 I shot a 44" bull with 4 tines on one side and 3 on the other. In recent years all the moose we've shot were 52-54" with only TWO brow tines on each side. Not one of the last six or seven moose we've shot have been any different.

    In short AGL is right. Its the genetics of the geographic area.

    The good news is you should be getting 50" ers in there in a few years. Eliminating the 3 tine rule will aide in the development of more 50+ bulls. We were shooting 36+ where I hunted 13 and never dreamed of shooting 50+ until spike/fork/50/3 tines was introduced in the area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    In my opinion the number of brow tines is more closely tied to the genetics lineage of the geographic area than to the size of the antler spread or to some extent even the age of the bull. In some areas of Alaska 5 brow tines are common. However the Kenai Peninsula is NOT one of those areas. It was/is hard to find a sub 50" moose with 3 brow tines in this area.
    I would agree. An area I've hunted a few times there are many 50+ bulls, but almost all of them have 2 X 2 browtines. It's been that way for years, one of the hunting worlds' unsolved mysteries...
    "Ya can't stop a bad guy with a middle finger and a bag of quarters!!!!"- Ted Nugent.

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    Now if you go over east of say Glennallen most of the mature bulls will have 5 or 6 brow tines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Bearcat View Post
    I am not sure about the Kenai, but I know that in Unit 13 it is common to see 40"+ bulls that have four well defined tines. That is one area that we hunt in that we take the time to look at every bull. We learned that several years ago. We had passed up on a bull that looked in the mid 40" range only to have another couple hunter shoot it. It did have four tine, we just did not look close enough.
    I also hunt unit 13 and many of the bulls that I see in the area we hunt have huge antlers but they grow more of an upward direction then an outward, pretty hard to find one of 50 plus but they are starting to be more common. The last year or two have seen 2 or 3 in camp over 55". So spending the extra time to find that extra brow tine demands alot of patience and persistence if not real good at judging width. The biggest mistake I see made is someone taking a bull that has a point, in no mans land, that is not attached to the brow palm and not exactly part of the palm area. I will save you the debate it's not a brow tine.

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    In the area of 13 we hunt, we've seen a real increase in the numbers over the past 5 years. Most are mid 50's and nearly all are 2x3 with some 3x3 and occasionaly 3x4. Interestingly enought the bulls we see with 4 tines are most often in the mid 40's, such as this first one. The bigger bulls are almost always 3 or less, such as the second picture, he went just over 61.
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    Funny the difference a few dozen miles makes. I also hunt 13, but we generally don't see more than 1 or 2 50+ inchers in a year. Last couple of years I've seen mostly 35-48 inch moose taken via 3 or 4 brow tines.

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    We used to hunt 13 every year. Three of us would go and we would stop when we shot two bulls. Every year for many years we always got our two. Then they changed it to a 4 brow tine rule and we got skunked two or three years running. Then we quit area 13. Might be stupid but I am trainable.

    Always seen 4-6 shootable 3 brow tine moose, but never once seen a 4. Fact is, before the 4 brow tine rule we never even seen a 4 in our area. But did shoot a couple mid 50's with 2 brow tines. Genetics, genetics, and genetics.
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    I also think genetics is a major factor. And, if you target a specific genetic trait, I think you can remove that trait from the gene pool and then that trait becomes scarce. So shoot all the 4 tine breeding stock and see whats left. I think we are headed toward drawing hunts only for moose in all but the most inaccessable areas. Of course it should help to wipe out a bunch of bear and wolves. Anyway, I believe the old question of "Did you get your moose yet?" is going to change to "Did you draw a tag this year?". Or they will keep putting on more tines until there are no moose in that class.

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    But but but...I thought it was hunting opportunity most wanted...not killing opportunity.
    All the games played thus far with the 36" and now 50" rule, the danged inferior spike/fork will never make a breed bull theory and the infamous of course lets just kill all them danged cows and now calves that are over grazing the habitat. Sure makes for some fun history books...and a pretty darned bleak future.
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    "one of the hunting worlds' unsolved mysteries..."

    Genetics? Hardly! It's all due to 3 wishes granted by the bulls' Fairy Godmoose to protect them.

    What? You don't believe in "Fairy Godmothers"? That's okay, I don't believe in "Biologists" either.

    There, mystery solved.

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    Kenai bulls get the spread but very rarely do they get more than 3 tine. I would guess maybe one out of 50 bulls on the kenai will have 4 brow tine. The rule was put in place during this board of game cycle because of a serious lack of mature bulls on the kenai and the need to get some of those "40 inchers with 3 tine" that were being shot to grow to maturity.

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    It will be very interesting to see the harvest numbers for the next few years in unit 15. Hopefully this doesn't last longer than 5 years or so, because the odds are slim to none of seeing 4 tine bulls with any regularity. We'll have two cow tags in camp this year, and I'm betting that's the only meat that will come in.
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    Saw 2 last night while bow hunting unit 14 but could'nt get close enough to close the deal.
    Paul

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    Quote Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
    Funny the difference a few dozen miles makes. I also hunt 13, but we generally don't see more than 1 or 2 50+ inchers in a year. Last couple of years I've seen mostly 35-48 inch moose taken via 3 or 4 brow tines.
    Ain't that the truth!!

    The 62 I shot has 15 brow-tines and I've seen a 40 incher have 13 in the same general area in 13. A ways east it gets more bleak, and then a few more miles east I hear it gets better again...

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    I was thinking along the lines of as common as a winning lottery ticket in a state with no lottery...

    Seriously though I've seen 1 bull with 3 brow tines in 4 years of hiking and hunting in 15, none with 4.

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