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Thread: Kel Tec PMR 30

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    Member marshall's Avatar
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    Default Kel Tec PMR 30

    A friend of mine has been on a list to receive one of these little hand guns for about a year. This morning he got the call so I drove him down to the shop to pick it up. Jack would have drove himself but he had lower back surgery yesterday.


    http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/pistols/pmr-30/


    I handled the gun and stripped it down for inspection, it's quite nice. The magazine release is a bit odd in that it's located at the bottom of the grip towards the rear. Since it holds 30 rounds changing mags frequently in the traditional 1911 manner won't be an issue.

    I have been on a list at two very large gun stores in the valley, still waiting. He took delivery from a small Mom and Pop store, very weird. This gun is a post recall serial number so it's the latest design.

    I will have an opportunity to shoot the gun later in the week.

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    Please Chronograph some loads and let us know the velocities.

    Thanks
    Smitty of the North
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    These have been hard to find. I've talked to a couple large Kel-Tec distributors and they've seen very few of these pistols. Generally, they are an "allocated" item, which means when they do get a shipment, each salesman gets 1 or two to sell, and he gets to decide which shop gets the guns. Just the way it goes. Until Kel-Tec catches up with demand, that's the way its going to be.
    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind."

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    why wouldnt it be in .22 ? i would buy one then....

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    Will do Smitty. Going to shoot CCI varmints and solids.

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    I had a chance to shoot the this PMR 30 this morning. The hand gun is very light and quite pleasant to shoot. The cases eject forward so no hot brass in your shirt or on your neighbor.

    I was shooting 30gr and 40gr CCI Maxi-Mag HP+V ammo. The 30gr ammo was hands down the accuracy winner. Shots at 10 yards were a touch high, 25 yards was dead on point of aim with my grip. Groups were very nice for a hand gun, recoil is nothing.

    I ran the 30gr CCI ammo through the Crony Master and compared it to a Marlin bolt action Stainless Steel 22" barrel and a Henry lever action 18 1/4" barrel. All guns were shooting the same 22 mag ammo.

    CCI claims 2200 fps on the box, my results are as follows;

    Kel Tec PMR 30 1565 fps
    Marlin 22" Bolt action 2299 fps
    Henry 18 1/4" Lever Action 2261 fps

    As expected the hand gun gave up a lot of velocity but no muzzle flash was noted in day light conditions. I only shot 90 rounds though the PMR 30. No miss feeds or failure to eject. There were two rounds that didn't go off, typical rim fire.

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    Now I am going to have to see what my ruger mkII shoots standard LR at. Curious if the short barrel makes the mag a waste of coin

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    Thanks for the report Marhsall! I keep hitting up the Ak_lanche guy for chrony testing but I may have to finally get one myself! Your report discredits the false reports that the 22 mag. doesnt produce good velocity out of a pistol barrel. Some folks claimed that a 22 mag will only give numbers equal to a 22 lr. 1,500fps......now that is something!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    Now I am going to have to see what my ruger mkII shoots standard LR at. Curious if the short barrel makes the mag a waste of coin
    Lugon,

    Since the Mag lost 700fps in the pistol I would imagine the 22LR will suffer huge. In reality the 22 Mag in a hand gun is shooting faster than published 22LR in a rifle.

    Point of aim with the factory fiber optic sights was dead on at 25 yards, pretty cool. I'm on a waiting list for one and I plan on exercising that option when the phone call comes in.

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    Here's my 22 magnum/handgun test recipie:

    1. One part ribs, one part 10 in. wide cheap roast, wrapped in jean material.

    2. A carefully placed shot in three of these at 10 meters using three different 22 magnum loads

    3. With a fillet knife, carefully dissect the test package and examine the wound channel.

    4. Take photos and specs of the bullet performance.

    5. Feed what is left to my Malamute puppy over the course of two days

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    Mainer,

    Sounds like a fun test. Actually, I just got done eating Cook Inlet Halibut from my last trip. Tried a blackened recipe, very tasty.

    My next range trip will compare a Taurus 22Mag revolver against the PMR 30 velocity. I expect a little more velocity out of the revolver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    Now I am going to have to see what my ruger mkII shoots standard LR at. Curious if the short barrel makes the mag a waste of coin
    Well 22lr 33g Rem Yellow Jackets are 1360ish and 32g CCI Stingers are 1570fps out of my Single Six . . . those 30g Maxi-Mags are right at 1500fps out of the very same handgun.

    I've played with a lot of 22lr/22mag in my Single Six and mag is usually 50 to 75fps faster from a handgun with the same bullet, not near enough to justify the extra price in my book. Now in a rifle 22lr doesnít gain all that much more speed from the added barrel but the 22mag sure does. 22mag has a slower powder better fit to a rifle and that is the only place I shoot them expensive boogers after playing around over a chronograph.
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshall View Post
    My next range trip will compare a Taurus 22Mag revolver against the PMR 30 velocity. I expect a little more velocity out of the revolver.
    I would expects less from the revolver due to cylinder gap unless it's a longer barrel.
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    Yep BC gap which makes silencers on TV revolvers such a silly thing
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    Well 22lr 33g Rem Yellow Jackets are 1360ish and 32g CCI Stingers are 1570fps out of my Single Six . . . those 30g Maxi-Mags are right at 1500fps out of the very same handgun.

    I've played with a lot of 22lr/22mag in my Single Six and mag is usually 50 to 75fps faster from a handgun with the same bullet, not near enough to justify the extra price in my book. Now in a rifle 22lr doesnít gain all that much more speed from the added barrel but the 22mag sure does. 22mag has a slower powder better fit to a rifle and that is the only place I shoot them expensive boogers after playing around over a chronograph.
    That's a good comparison. Same gun, same barrel length.

    I'm sure the powder IS different. Many long years ago, myself and a friend were shooting at Night with our SSes. He, with his 6.5" 22 Mag. and I with my 5.5" barrel. There was a LOT of Muzzle Flash, but his MF was huge compared to mine.

    I say, try 40 grain bullets. I use the Federal 50 grain loads in my rifle, so I feel that I have appreciable power over the 22 LR.

    I've concluded, the 22 Mag. is a Rifle cartridge. It needs barrel length, to have any great advantage over 22 LR.

    I've never owned a 22 Mag. handgun, and have had to go by published ballistics in an old Gun Digest. Chronos are cheap now, so we can know for sure.

    Smitty of the North
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    Assuming it works well, that 30 round magazine makes the Keltec attractive, to some folks anyway.

    Too bad they didn't make it in 22 LR, though. It would be MUCH cheaper, to enjoy.

    FIRE POWER.

    Smitty of the North
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    I have never been fond of the 22mag. I have had 3 or 4 over the years but got rid of them. In a handgun the little added performance isn't justified by the added cost ( about 5 x as much as 22lr). In a rifle the gain is significant and probably worth the added cost of ammo. But, in a rifle, the 22H will easily put the boot to the 22mag using a $.03 primer, $.04 in powder and a cast bullet that is too cheap to calculate. The 22mag offers nothing that I can't get done better and cheaper with something else.YMMV.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    I have never been fond of the 22mag. I have had 3 or 4 over the years but got rid of them. In a handgun the little added performance isn't justified by the added cost ( about 5 x as much as 22lr). In a rifle the gain is significant and probably worth the added cost of ammo. But, in a rifle, the 22H will easily put the boot to the 22mag using a $.03 primer, $.04 in powder and a cast bullet that is too cheap to calculate. The 22mag offers nothing that I can't get done better and cheaper with something else.YMMV.
    I hafta agree, and I understand, but I do like the throw-away brass, and in a cartridge more powerful than a 22 LR, even though it comes at higher cost.

    I often wonder why they don't make larger caliber Rimfire cartridges, anymore, even though pressure is limited, and therefore velocity, in a Rimfire, due to the brass being weaker, and thinner at the case head.

    Considering the current cost of 22 Mags. I'm speculating that it is for ecomomic as well as, performance reasons.

    Smitty of the North
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    I don't know quite know the economics of making 22lr vrs. 22mag but something seems haywire to me. There is twice as much brass and twice as much powder but the bullet is about the same material wise. I can't imagine the manufacturing process or machines costing much if any more for 22mag than 22lr but we are being charged 5 to 6 times as much for 22mag as 22lr. If 22mag was $50 per 500 (about 2.5 x as high as 22lr) I could probably justify shooting a 22mag. Although I still prefer the 22H, the throw away case is a good point. At $10/$12 for 50 22m compared to $2 for 50 22lr, I think we are being badly over charged for 22m. I also believe the sales of 22mag guns would go through the roof if the price of ammo came down to the same profit margin as 22lr. There may be more involved than I am aware of, but I doubt it. As far as bigger caliber rim fires go, if the price of ammo jumped in the same ratio as 22lr to 22mag, you could buy center fire cheaper. Some 9mm and 38spl ammo is only a bit more than 22mag. Many of the prices of things we buy are not logical. 375H&H cases at about $1 each vs 416Rem at about $2 each. Almost identical cases yet one is twice the price of the other. 454 Casull vs 45 Colt cases. The list goes on and maybe I'm just being unreasonably cheap but if I want to shoot much I have to spend wisely. For me, 22mag is going to have to be cheaper to shoot than 357mag before I will consider it a viable choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    I don't know quite know the economics of making 22lr vrs. 22mag but something seems haywire to me. There is twice as much brass and twice as much powder but the bullet is about the same material wise. I can't imagine the manufacturing process or machines costing much if any more for 22mag than 22lr but we are being charged 5 to 6 times as much for 22mag as 22lr. If 22mag was $50 per 500 (about 2.5 x as high as 22lr) I could probably justify shooting a 22mag. Although I still prefer the 22H, the throw away case is a good point. At $10/$12 for 50 22m compared to $2 for 50 22lr, I think we are being badly over charged for 22m. I also believe the sales of 22mag guns would go through the roof if the price of ammo came down to the same profit margin as 22lr. There may be more involved than I am aware of, but I doubt it. As far as bigger caliber rim fires go, if the price of ammo jumped in the same ratio as 22lr to 22mag, you could buy center fire cheaper. Some 9mm and 38spl ammo is only a bit more than 22mag. Many of the prices of things we buy are not logical. 375H&H cases at about $1 each vs 416Rem at about $2 each. Almost identical cases yet one is twice the price of the other. 454 Casull vs 45 Colt cases. The list goes on and maybe I'm just being unreasonably cheap but if I want to shoot much I have to spend wisely. For me, 22mag is going to have to be cheaper to shoot than 357mag before I will consider it a viable choice.
    I think itís mostly the economics of set-up times verses demand/run quantities. Take 45 Colt, 454, and 460 as an hypothec example. They set up and run say 90 days on 45 and they will sell within a year, run 454 for a week for what sells in a year, and 460 maybe a day. Assuming set up and tuning takes a day that means set up cost would be 89 times less for 45 than 460.
    With 22mag itís a catch 22, if they sold more 22mag ammo it would be cheaper. If 22mag was cheaper more people would buy 22mag guns . . . price wonít come down till demand is there, demand wonít be there till price goes down.
    Andy
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