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Thread: Does Remington still have saftey issues

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    Default Does Remington still have saftey issues

    I am looking at buying a new rifle and was wondering if Remingtons Xmark trigger was a fix for the old Remington trigger system that could fire when taking it off saftey. Did some research on the internet but couldn't find if it was fixed or not. Thanks for any info.

    Bo

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    You might want to post this over in the gunsmithing section.

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    I dont think there is/was a problem with the remington trigger. Past or present. Think about how many millions of them are out there. I think it was a big witch hunt created by the news. Ive never had a problem with any of my triggers. when this went down, I went to the gun safe and tried to make my remmys fire every wich way possible. didnt happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rimfirematt View Post
    I dont think there is/was a problem with the remington trigger. Past or present.
    Retards were the problem. Not the rem trigger. Well said RFM.

  5. #5

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    There is a quality program available on this subject called "Remington Under Fire". It not only addresses this trigger problem but the designer of the rifle and trigger group MiKe Walker aknowledges that the rifle may be prone to these problems. Mike Walker is a world class shooter and appears in this documentary. He also designed a retro-fit trigger for the 700 design. This retro-fit was designed in the early 60's and would have cost 5 cents per rifle to incorporate. At that time Reminton only had some 100,000 or so rifles in general use. Reminton chose not to recall these rifles or incorporate the upgrade in all future 700 production. Today it's estimated that the retro-fit would cost Remington $50,000,000.00 since production has exceeded 1 million units. This number doesn't include plausable liability law suites that could be incurred by it's admission of design flaws.
    The rifle itself is a quality design and the triggers are replaceable with several different brands, if you feel the need for a better trigger or one with a reduced trigger pull.
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    I'm not sure just what to think about that Remington Trigger problem.

    Sure, it's possible to have it, but I doubt that they are actually "prone" to the problem. Lots of problems are possible with all kinds of guns. If someone is injured or killed because of a faulty trigger, it was preceded by an unsafe act.

    It's just that this problem isn't a good one to have, and there are sooo many rifles out there.

    I've never had the problem with my two 700s, and I never had them pointed at someone when I took the safety off either. I seldom use a safety anyway.

    When I learned of the problem, I made sure the triggers were cleaned and adjusted, and I don't squirt them with WD-40, or anything else, because reportedly that could contribute to a possible failure.

    I don't think that Remingtons' new trigger was designed as a "fix" to the issue of the original ones, which are pretty good triggers, functionally.

    Smitty of the North
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    As far as I know remington NEVER HAD ANY ISSUES WITH TRIGGERS on their production rifles. The guns used in that show were highly altered for police snippers by some one or some company.

    This is not the first time shows had alterior motives to get the relults they wanted. Remember the saddle tanks on 1970's trucks. They put 12 solid rocket moters around the tanks to ingnite the fuel once the locamotive engine hit the truck. The best thing was they could not get the truck to ignite at all. Thats what I think of todays news/journalizim.

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    IIRC, a woman recently blew her son away while unloading her rem. She blamed the trigger. I blame her as I would never cover a child(or anything I didn't intend to kill) with the muzzle, not to mention while I was loading/unloading the gun. IMO, she blamed the trigger instead of taking responsibility.

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    Member Matt M's Avatar
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    The only safety issue with the model 700 was the person holding it. My father did something not too smart with his rifle and it scared him. Was it the rifle's fault or a design issue? No, it was carelessness and a lapse of good judgement. He didn't look for a scapegoat but did tell me what happened so I would not make the same mistake he did.

    AKMatt

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    What??? You mean he took responsibility, learned from his mistake, and then passed it on? Not so common these days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tailwind View Post
    IIRC, a woman recently blew her son away while unloading her rem. She blamed the trigger. I blame her as I would never cover a child(or anything I didn't intend to kill) with the muzzle, not to mention while I was loading/unloading the gun. IMO, she blamed the trigger instead of taking responsibility.
    Yes this was the incident that started the rumor that the 700 was not safe. I wish I knew more about this incident. I imagine that they examined the rifle and performed tests on it and it would be nice to know what they found out. And well said Tailwind, I dont think gun owners need a gun that is guaranteed not to discharge while pointing it at an unintended target. Gunowners need to take responsibility for what they do.

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    I’ve ran into a lot of bolt guns over the years that sometimes fire when the safety is switched off or as the bolt is being closed. They have run the gambit of brands . . . 98% are the result of some nimrod without a clue trying to do a trigger job on them 2% were just flat worn out from use. Nothing about a 700 that’s any more “unsafe” than any other bolt gun out there and all guns are only as safe as the person holding it.
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    First off, yes, remington did/does have a problem with their saftey mechanism causing the gun to fire. The company has admitted this and has paid for it in numerous lawsuits. Second, the lady that shot her son, did have the gun pointed away from everyone, if I remember the news reports correctly the kid was running around playing and got caught by the ricochet, so yes if you consider that "blew her son away" then she did. I am trying to get a straight answer on whether or not the X-mark trigger is remingtons fix for the old firing mechanism. There original trigger had a fatal flaw that would cause it to fire in about 1% of all guns (roughly 5 mil remingtons sold, so around 50k guns) Since I am looking at buying a gun for my daughter(who has been taught and knows the proper way to handle firearms), I would prefer it didn't have that problem to begin with. I don't need lessons on proper gun handling, so if that is your reply, thank you but no thank you.

    Bo

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    Why don'tcha ask Remington then?

    You might also ask them if they agree with everything you just said in your post. I seriously doubt they would.

    What folks have been trying to point out, is that, this IS a gun handling Issue, more than an issue with the Remington Trigger design.

    If Remington is at such fault as you seem to think, why would you even CONSIDER purchasing a firearm from them? For your Daughter??

    What is your real motive for bringing this up?

    Smitty of the North
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    At 1% I'd have ran across at least one then in my life (4 or 5 by the math) and others here that have been around (like Brown bear, Tailwind and Smitty) would have also seen it wouldn‘t ya think? But I have never had a single one in my hands that did this without some help from a shade tree gunsmith or not maintained for countless thousands of rounds.

    Any bolt gun can do this because the firing pin is in the moveable bolt, trigger in the stationary receiver and when the bolt shuts main spring pressure held only by the fitment of the parts. If the parts don't fit just right due to file work, wear, or even something as simple as not re-assembling everything right after cleaning they can fire just from taking off safe/closing bolt/bumping anything or just because it feels like it.

    I have seen it with ALL brands from time to time (shot my own truck taking a Mouser putting it on safe back in the 60s) don’t blame Remington . . . they just got the most bad press about it. Winchester, Ruger, and Weatherby all did recalls for bolt gun Ads (that I know of) over the years to CYA and nip myths in the bud.

    If you truly think so highly of Remington’s corporate responsibility (that they would put out a faulty product then do nothing) why would you want their product?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    At 1% I'd have ran across at least one then in my life (4 or 5 by the math) and others here that have been around (like Brown bear, Tailwind and Smitty) would have also seen it wouldn‘t ya think? But I have never had a single one in my hands that did this without some help from a shade tree gunsmith or not maintained for countless thousands of rounds.

    Any bolt gun can do this because the firing pin is in the moveable bolt, trigger in the stationary receiver and when the bolt shuts main spring pressure held only by the fitment of the parts. If the parts don't fit just right due to file work, wear, or even something as simple as not re-assembling everything right after cleaning they can fire just from taking off safe/closing bolt/bumping anything or just because it feels like it.

    I have seen it with ALL brands from time to time (shot my own truck taking a Mouser putting it on safe back in the 60s) don’t blame Remington . . . they just got the most bad press about it. Winchester, Ruger, and Weatherby all did recalls for bolt gun Ads (that I know of) over the years to CYA and nip myths in the bud.

    If you truly think so highly of Remington’s corporate responsibility (that they would put out a faulty product then do nothing) why would you want their product?
    Right on, AD:

    Read my recent post over on the Gunsmithing Forum, regarding my Ruger.

    I'm thinking it COULD have fired on closing the bolt. Of course, the firing pin blow would have been cushioned by the movement of the bolt, but who knows what COULD transpire.

    Smitty of the North
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    Why don'tcha ask Remington then?

    You might also ask them if they agree with everything you just said in your post. I seriously doubt they would.

    What folks have been trying to point out, is that, this IS a gun handling Issue, more than an issue with the Remington Trigger design.

    If Remington is at such fault as you seem to think, why would you even CONSIDER purchasing a firearm from them? For your Daughter??

    What is your real motive for bringing this up?

    Smitty of the North
    I did ask Remington, they haven't responded. I had my question answered over in gunsmithing. As for considering purchasing a remington, that is why I asked the question, so I know whether or not to include them in my options. Yes for my daughter, is it wrong for me to allow my daughter to hunt, are you some ass backwards bigoted haji that thinks women should be covered in veil's and not speak or be without the presence of a male relative. Why would you even question, me buying a rifle for my daughter to hunt with. Maybe you should join us, it is 2011 and it is okay for girls and women to do that now. My wife hunts too, do you have a problem with that?
    My real reason for the post here is because I had a question that I wanted answered so that I knew what all my options were going to be.
    Even if the gun was pointed in a safe direction finger not on the trigger and it fired when taking off the saftey it is a gun handling issue? Thats amazing, I would like to hear your muddied explanation for this but I am not sure I would be able to follow you down that "slippery slope" of an arguement.

    Bo

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    " Originally Posted by Smitty of the North
    Thanks you guys, for the answers:

    I haven't seen the documentary, but I heard of the problem a couple three years ago.

    It sure makes me cautious now.

    I hunt with one of my 700s off and on. I probably should get another trigger, just for some piece of mind, since this tends to bug me.

    Thanks Again.
    Smitty of the North"



    So apparently, Smitty of the North, last year you didn't think it was a gunhandling issue. Thats weird, from your other posts I would have thought that you worked for remington, are you still cautious about them?

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    Do Remingtons have a safety problem? Ask them and get the fix.
    Does Remington have a problem with customer service? Ask anyone who got screwed by them over there 17 HMR's? I will never buy a Remington product after that crap. If they did have a trigger problem then i'm sure they will screw you some how with it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MT_SLDR View Post
    I did ask Remington, they haven't responded. I had my question answered over in gunsmithing. As for considering purchasing a remington, that is why I asked the question, so I know whether or not to include them in my options. Yes for my daughter, is it wrong for me to allow my daughter to hunt, are you some ass backwards bigoted haji that thinks women should be covered in veil's and not speak or be without the presence of a male relative. Why would you even question, me buying a rifle for my daughter to hunt with. Maybe you should join us, it is 2011 and it is okay for girls and women to do that now. My wife hunts too, do you have a problem with that?
    My real reason for the post here is because I had a question that I wanted answered so that I knew what all my options were going to be.
    Even if the gun was pointed in a safe direction finger not on the trigger and it fired when taking off the saftey it is a gun handling issue? Thats amazing, I would like to hear your muddied explanation for this but I am not sure I would be able to follow you down that "slippery slope" of an arguement.

    Bo
    On the “for your daughter?” thing he means why would you buy something for your loved one made by a company you don’t believe acts responsibly. Smitty isn’t a woman hating Taliban and reading his ample posts on defense/hunting guns for women over the years would tell you that.
     
    On gun handling, any gun can fire at any time and where that round goes is always the responsibility of the person with care/custody/control. There are no exceptions! That doesn’t mean we should just live with a faulty gun though, it means we should be all the more diligent, we should know it’s a faulty gun or not.
     
    If that kid was killed by a ricochet or not doesn’t matter since had she acutely had the muzzle in a safe direction there would be no ricochet, no dead kid. Since the kid was shot obtusely the muzzle wasn’t in a safe direction was it!
     
    The whole point of safe handling habits is to expect the unexpected, any gun can fire unexpectedly no matter how well made or how empty you think it is so always expect it to fire! Don’t let your kid run around willy-nilly, don’t have the gun pointed at a rock or concrete, don’t function any part of the gun unless the muzzle in in safe direction, and for peet sake don’t do all these things at once!

    The answer to your question “does the new trigger fix the Remington 700 A/D problem” was given, you best not be trusting the safety on any gun and we don‘t believe there was an issue other than litigating to make some money! The new trigger does help make an A/D a tad less likely in cretin situations but only time will tell what new issues come with the new trigger.
    Andy
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