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Thread: Dip netting/sportsfishing will end come july

  1. #1
    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    Angry Dip netting/sportsfishing will end come july

    To all who are interested, The BOF on tuesday accepted an emergency petition to close the commercial window(no fishing) so the commercials can fish 24/7 after the Biological escapement goal is met, or they don't have to be cut back if the BEG is lagging. This will be put to a telophonic vote in two months, without public imput. So the Commercials ask the majority of commercials(BOF), to vote privately if they can scoop up after every fish once the BEG is met. That sounds like a very cozy set-up to me. You all can kiss the Kenai/kasilof rivers goodbye for fishing by the end of july through august. Also included in that is silvers destined to the Yentna/fish creek/big sue areas. Because of by-catch. If you don't get involved, I don't want to hear you rant or moan come july. You all better call your friends and relatives, cause the Board of fisheries are about to give away your resources. So are you boys ganna sit around and talk or are you going to do something, to save your resource? Just curious!!! Do y'all know how to write a letter to an editor?

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Default

    Do you have a link to this decision? I'd like to see how it's actually written.

    -Brian

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    Default

    Would also like to see the link

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    Member akfishfool's Avatar
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    Default I would to

    I would like to see the proposal as well, that would pretty much kill my family vacation this year (no reds for me)

    My eight uear old had been begging me all year to go down for reds towards the middle to late July. She was hooked after catching a red in the Kenai last year during the late run.

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    The BOF meeting just ended and the staff, who had worked through the weekend, took a day off. Not sure when the proposal will be available to the public but will make sure it gets posted here.

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    Default sick

    This is sick. Yes, post whatever you know as soon as you do know. thanks. john

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    Default

    I just spent some time trying to find this and couldn't. Does the original poster have any more info? This wouldn't 100% mean no dipping either....I mean depends on how many fish are coming in.....I do agree it would suck though. Crazy idea...why not no commerical fishing say Saturdays? Or Window openers to help out the rest of us non-commerical guys. by that I mean say fish like crazy once escapement is reached (commercial guys) but pull the nets from oooh 9am to 9pm?

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    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    except for at least 50% of reds avoid gillnets even in terminal hatchery situations.
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    Default AK Powder Monkey wrong

    This thread is not correct as stated by ak powder monkey. The petition asks what ADF&G requested. They indicated a conflict in the management plans - do they manage for the escapement goals which give high sustained yields or do they manage with the windows and allow the escapement goals to be secondary.

    The petition just stated that the primary objective for management is the escapement goals. That is what has made Alaska different from other states. We manage for escapement goals and not user needs - any users needs.

    However, the allocation of harvestable fish to the users can still be adjusted by increasing the in-river goals. For example, at low run strengths the goal is 650,000 - 850,000 fish. At high run strengths for sockeye the goal is 850-1.1 million. So no matter what the board of fish does those goals will not change and the dip net fisheries will operate just fine.

    So the hype that ak powder monkey is trying to generate is just plain wrong from a management perspective, it is wrong on no fish at the end of July, and it is wrong on the commercial guys fishing 24/7. The ADF&G has stated they will try to use the windows but if the goals are going to be exceeded then they will make meeting the goals the priority. This will generate good returns for future years.

    So please do not make this a commercial vs. personal use fishing issue. In fact the individual who put the proposal in fishes mostly Kasilof fish and his other proposal was to do away with the Kasilof terminal fishery because of conflicts with personal use fisherman and impact on other stocks.

    Ak Powder Monkey - it would be good to check out the rationale in the petitions before creating wide spread misinformation.

    I am off for three weeks of vacation - should be some open water when I return.

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    Default follow up

    This petition requests the Alaska Board of Fisheries to adopt an emergency regulation amending 5 AAC 21.363. Upper Cook Inlet Salmon Management Plan, as followsfor the 2007 season:
    (e) It is the intent of the board that, while in most circumstances the department will adhere to the management plans in this chapter, achieving established escapement goals is the primary management objective; therefore, nothing in these management plans is intended to override the commissionerís emergency order authority under AS 16.05.060.

    Here is the wording change the petition asks the Board to adopt. The underline is the change from existing regulations. As I noted the Board of Fish at its January 2008 meeting can allocate more fish to any user group by changing the goals in the plans.

    Also, the hype about Yentna coho is wrong. Even when the commercial fisheries were fishing over 90 percent of the coho made it to the Northern District streams and the Kenai River - ADF&G tagging studies.

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    Default do i understand this correctly?

    So basically this change gives fish and game the ability to have emergency openers based on need, to control overescapement, rather than to try and manage around whats best for the weekend warrior dipping and fishing crowd? If so hats off and good work. This will be best for ALL user groups in the long run.

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    Default sorry ak powder monkey

    sorry ak my post referenced you when it should have referenced thewhpo2000 comments. my mind failed.

    gotfish - you are right on - the resource and maintaining high sustained yields comes first.

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    Default Amen

    Kudos Nerka, well put. The fight between personal use and commercial needs to end. Renegades from each side should shut up and fish.

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    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    sorry ak my post referenced you when it should have referenced thewhpo2000 comments. my mind failed.

    gotfish - you are right on - the resource and maintaining high sustained yields comes first.
    No problem I was confused for a bit....

    Anyway would you agree with my 50% assertion? I mean thats how it is in Main bay about and main bay is small and has a lot of boats and still about half the fish get through
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    Default windows still?

    Hey I agree with the escapement goals. I want the rivers managed corectly and understand no one OWES me any fish. However, I'd say the same for all user groups. No one OWES the commecial fleet anything.

    Now, (calm down monkey), what is the best tool to manges for escapement?? Commercial fishermen. Are there other methods and other user groups? Sure. If you went back and read one of my posts here in this thread I mentioned windows UNTIL escapement is reached. Then let the nets be in the water 24/7 (or as long as they can before having to sleep etc) See if the escapement won't or hasn't been reached then why not allow windows? IF not they are are favoring one user group over another. I also agree with Monkey that fish can get around nets, but in small runs (numbers) The same amount of boats going after fewer fish means they are Much, Much better at netting most of the fish. After escapement is reached or on the days 50,000 reds hit the river I don't think it matters if the nets are out or not. On the days 15,000 hit then it really, really slows the rate/number of fish getting into the river. On low returns or before it becomes a biological issue (overescapement) I think All user groups need to be considered.

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    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akbrownsfan View Post
    Hey I agree with the escapement goals. I want the rivers managed corectly and understand no one OWES me any fish. However, I'd say the same for all user groups. No one OWES the commecial fleet anything.

    Now, (calm down monkey), what is the best tool to manges for escapement?? Commercial fishermen. Are there other methods and other user groups? Sure. If you went back and read one of my posts here in this thread I mentioned windows UNTIL escapement is reached. Then let the nets be in the water 24/7 (or as long as they can before having to sleep etc) See if the escapement won't or hasn't been reached then why not allow windows? IF not they are are favoring one user group over another. I also agree with Monkey that fish can get around nets, but in small runs (numbers) The same amount of boats going after fewer fish means they are Much, Much better at netting most of the fish. After escapement is reached or on the days 50,000 reds hit the river I don't think it matters if the nets are out or not. On the days 15,000 hit then it really, really slows the rate/number of fish getting into the river. On low returns or before it becomes a biological issue (overescapement) I think All user groups need to be considered.
    And that totally makes sense to everybody the problem of course is that nobody knows what days there will be 1500 fish and what day there will be 50000 fish. openers should be sundays nights and thursday mornings for 24 hour periods and when the escapement goal is reached then expand them to 36 or 48 hour periods, just like the copper river right now the comm guys fish 4 12 hour periods right? That seems pretty crazy to me, both for the fishermen and the dipnetters. This conflict can be resolved through education, my sig says it all
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    Default I hear ya!

    Oh I hear you. I know that trying to predict how many fish will hit a river on any given day is very difficult (LOL, I do it every day looking at the sonar numbers) I totally agree that it is hard to manage a fishery as well. I totally agree with the goals as ADF&G set it up. Escapement is the way to mange not by requests from just one user group.

    In all honesty I just keep thinking of last year when the river (Kenai) was shut down, but (I could be wrong here) commercial nets where still in the water catching Kenai fish. I know that they were not right next to the mouth, but I also think eveyone knew that they were catching Kenai reds by the average wt. Like I said I could be waaay wrong and correct me if so. The entire thing was just really strange last year. (the late run, and shutting down the river.)

    Also and this is coming from someone with a somewhat commercial view who also fishes and dips.......remember if it is all about the fish in the freeezer if you go to the Kenai and don't get any you can BUY reds for $2 a pound or something like that if you look around. So if it IS all about gas, and time and making sure you get some fish to eat there is always that.

  18. #18
    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akbrownsfan View Post
    In all honesty I just keep thinking of last year when the river (Kenai) was shut down, but (I could be wrong here) commercial nets where still in the water catching Kenai fish. I know that they were not right next to the mouth, but I also think eveyone knew that they were catching Kenai reds by the average wt. Like I said I could be waaay wrong and correct me if so. The entire thing was just really strange last year. (the late run, and shutting down the river.)
    No you are absolutely right a few of the catch rates in the Kasilof THA were so absurdly high that they couldn't have all been kasilof fish, however what that told me was that there were fish on the way to the kenai, yet another useful management tool that commercial fishing provides (and had the department read the signs right they would have had nets in the water waiting for that slug of fish and the river would not have overescaped again.)
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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