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Thread: Hull Insurance

  1. #1

    Default Hull Insurance

    How many of you carry hull insurance on your plane. I got a quote and it was around 730$ a month, that seems pretty steep. Of course loosing 100 grand if you wreck your plane is pretty steep as well. I will probalby end up paying it just due to the exorbant cost of planes but I am wondering if it goes down when you get more hours and so forth or is that pretty standard.

    I mean all it takes is a hard landing and a landing gear to go out, a prop strike, ground loop, etc and it could cost you tens of thousands. For that much money a month are these typically no questions asked we will fix your plane type arrangements or are they itching for an excuse not to pay, for 730$ a month I dont want to be hassled on a claim.

  2. #2

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    I am sure you already know this but you have a couple of things going against you. You live in Alaska, you are low time, you want a taildragger, you want an aerobatic, you want a high performance as well. $720 isn't unheard of. I pay about $600 a month but that is a c185 with commercial insurance. Figure $1500 for hull + $1500 per person as a starting figure per year.

  3. #3

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    Yea, I need to get the numbers reworked if I have a high time instructor with me that has significant experence in that make and model of air craft, I would not think the numbers would be quite that high in that case. Of course having an instructor with me all the time is 70$/hr which would add up quick so its probably worth it to just pay the insurance.

  4. #4
    Member faithnhim's Avatar
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    What companies are you checking with? I checked with AVEMCO and a few years ago my cub that was worth 70K cost $2500 per year. Now I have an M6 Maule and the quote was 7K per year and it's worth less than the cub was. I asked why so much and she said there was a MAJOR rate increase when you insure a taildragger with over 200 HP. Yikes!!! Are there any other companies that you have found? Anyone else have any recommendations? Checking with Falcon now.

  5. #5
    Member ocnfish's Avatar
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    If you finance a plane then there is no option, you have to insure, financial instutions require it... If you are in a different situation, own your plane and boat outright, with out help from banks etc. to help you realize your dreams then .... If you have enough assetts then you can "self insure" and if you take good care of your equipment and only include family and very, very close friends in the adventures, insurance is unnecessary. Have owned a great old C-180, beginning 1991 and a Osprey 26lc ocean boat beginning 2004 and it all has worked out just fine.

    Probably get a lot of flack on this one .... Oh well

    10% max on toys, as much as possible plowed into long term investments .... make money first and all the rest falls into place.

  6. #6
    Member algonquin's Avatar
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    I pay $4500.00 a year for full coverage on my 56' 180. We CX some of the ins. in the winter when we aren't flying so it ends up around $3000.00. Still a lot of money but I'm a little affaid of the risk without it. I'm not so worried about the hull loss it the liability to others.

  7. #7
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    My decision to insure hull has nothing to do with financing. Other interests require that I maintain insurance including a liability balloon policy. Nobody will do the balloon without full insurance on all owned equipment like boats and airplanes. My experience with aircraft insurance on a few models has seen prices vary by aircraft value, number of seats, model accident stats (determined by the insurers), and my PIC time and experience in type. If you're a new guy and/or new to a model, insurance premiums are going to hurt.

  8. #8
    Member Sierra Hotel's Avatar
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    It's a matter of risk management. Given the fact you can afford an a/c, you have other assets that might be at risk also. Liability should be the very minimum you carry, and then it's up to you (and your financial institution) as to how much insurance you carry. Me? I'm insure up to my neck

  9. #9

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    I am trying to insure a pitts S2B with 260 hp and I got my quote through falcon, he was also my FAA examinar. Really good guy.

  10. #10

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    I will own this plane outright so the insurance wont be required, my only concern is its a squrily tail dragger and if I ground loop it or have a prop strike it will be VERY expensive. I am not super rich but on the flip side I dont want to wait till im an old man before I start realizing my dreams so I will be spending MUCH more than 10% of my net worth on this plane, but its either that or dont fly acrobatics. Because I will be out on a limb financially I will probably just eat the insurance costs and hope they creep down as I build time.

    Of course if I ever did have an incident the rates would probably sky rocket and I would be forced to sell the rebuilt or new air craft or pocket the money and not rebuy but at least I would recover my original investment.

  11. #11

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    Oh man thats a good point, I should do a seasonal insurance since I will not likely be flying Nov through march that cuts out 5 months. Is it bad for the plane to sit that long if its hangared?

  12. #12

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    Yea, its only a 2 seater and most of the time it will be my instructor or my wife with me and thats it so im not too worried about liability as I am hull but I think the hull comes with general liability I will have to check the quote. It would be nice to have if I got my commercial rating and competent enough decided to do fun flights some day as well then I could write things off as a side buisness.

  13. #13
    Member Mort's Avatar
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    Regarding cancelling your insurance during the off-months: the insurance companies I contacted don't charge evenly by month. They weight their premiums in the high-months. So to insure for say, May-Sep, they would charge May 15%, Jun 20%, Jul 20%, Aug 20%, Sep 15%, Oct-Apr 10% total. That's percentage of the annual premium. So cancelling Oct-Apr saves you little (my numbers are inexact). Don't know if all do so, or what their breakdown is, but don't let it surprise you. Oh by the way, they always disclaim that if you cancel your insurance (to save in the off season) there is no guarantee they will insure you, and at same rates, when you reapply.

    So now I self-insure. When I fly by a potential landing site that looks challenging, I just fly on by and think "don't need to know that bad..."

  14. #14
    New member polarpete's Avatar
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    I just sold a cub that I owned outright for the last 26 years and elected to not insure the hull so I have saved a lot of money in that time. I'm an aircraft mechanic and figured I would fix it or stop flying if I had to. It worked out for me because I never wrecked it fortunately. It really depends on your situation and I'm sure skill and luck comes into play also.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mort View Post
    Regarding cancelling your insurance during the off-months: the insurance companies I contacted don't charge evenly by month. They weight their premiums in the high-months. So to insure for say, May-Sep, they would charge May 15%, Jun 20%, Jul 20%, Aug 20%, Sep 15%, Oct-Apr 10% total. That's percentage of the annual premium. So cancelling Oct-Apr saves you little (my numbers are inexact). Don't know if all do so, or what their breakdown is, but don't let it surprise you. Oh by the way, they always disclaim that if you cancel your insurance (to save in the off season) there is no guarantee they will insure you, and at same rates, when you reapply.

    So now I self-insure. When I fly by a potential landing site that looks challenging, I just fly on by and think "don't need to know that bad..."
    Avemco converts my policies from floats to wheels as I dictate and they adjust the premium for the dates I specify. There's a big difference between those rates. They also convert the policies from active to 'not in motion' for periods of inactivity during winter months. The insurance is in force but with the reduced risk during storage the rate is significantly reduced. With a simple phone call I can turn it on or off, or convert gear configuration, as I need. The insurance is always active and is never 'cancelled'.

  16. #16
    Member RocketRick's Avatar
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    I'm a low time 180 pilot. I orig went with Falcon but found Avemco more versatile but a larger deductible. Mine is $5763/yr right now and I pay it in quarterly payments. They also say I can convert to just not-in-motion for the winter and save some bucks. We'll see.

    I own the plane outright.

    I recently had a prop strike at the place I had the annual done. Avemco went out and got the pics and discussed damage with the A&P/AI folk that day. The appraiser gets his annuals done at the same shop. Still waiting to hear if they approve or deny the claim. The A&P/AI did a lot of improvements including 8.5 x 11 - 10 tires and the BBW plus new Cleveland double puck brakes. Still they said other things needed to be done to make it airworthy. I disagree and want to get other opinions.

    I took the plane to the shop BEFORE the annual ran out and trying to do the right thing so the coverage will remain in effect. All my BFRs and plane paper work was up to date.

    It will be interesting to see if they honor the insurance and pay the claim. Rest assured if they do not pay the claim, I will definitely let you guys know all about it.

    I also tried some of the insurers thru AOPA but they do not offer coverage here in Ak.

    Avemco will lower it after about 50-hrs then I think it's about 150-hrs. You need to ask them as I may be wrong with those hrs.

    I figure I'll keep the insurance for at least 2-years of flying. If they lower their rates to a reasonable amount after the 150-hrs I will prob keep it.

    Good luck with it.

    RR

  17. #17

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    Yea I think im going to maybe insure for a year until I get the plane up and get my feet wet in it then drop it. My quote was around 8500$ so thats pretty steep.

    So you had a prop strike landing on the A&P's crappy run way, I wont land my plane off pavement when I get it. I am going to look into getting my A&P/AI so I can do my own annuals and maintence. Waiting for the academic advisor at UAA to get back with me this week. My dad said alot of A&P's are either grossly over priced or a bit unscrupulus, between the hangar and the insurance I dont need more over priced services lol.

  18. #18
    Member RocketRick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rppearso View Post
    I am going to look into getting my A&P/AI so I can do my own annuals and maintence. Waiting for the academic advisor at UAA to get back with me this week. My dad said alot of A&P's are either grossly over priced or a bit unscrupulus, between the hangar and the insurance I dont need more over priced services lol.
    I checked out the A&P schools. It's two yrs here in ANC and $13k/yr. You can do it in one year if you go to Fairbanks but it's all day for a year. Not sure if it costs the $26k in Fairbanks for one year.

    There are 1-3 one year A&P schools outside. Not many tho.

    After you get your A&P license can you just take the AI test or do you have to be working in the field for 2-yrs after you get your A&P license?

    Things to stink about!.

    RR

  19. #19

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    I was wondering if there is a way to do it a class at a time even if it takes longer (hopefully the UAA advisor will get back with me today). Will have to put the EE masters on hold while I do this though. I cant leave my day job to do this, so an all day thing would not be feasable. Its unfortunate that everything in the aviation world is highly inflated, if it were comperable costs to a truck I would just pay for it. I realize this whole flying thing is going to be a life long endevor, I am emailing a contact at seimens to see what it would take to build up a turbine from scratch, I could probably build one faster than it would take me to save 200k (plus overhaul time and expense), so long as I dont have to buy 40k pieces of equipment.

    Even 1000 mile journys begin with one step, I figure I got my licence and a chemical engineering degree so now I can start down the path of custom air craft, who knows if it works out I can quit my day job lol.

  20. #20

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    Do you have your A&P, can you do it just a few hours a day or on nights and weekends, are they fairly flexable in that regard to work around someone who is already working.

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