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Thread: Do cup and core bullets not kill any more?

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    Default Do cup and core bullets not kill any more?

    I read all the hype about the new bullets being the only way to go. Even the Nosler Partitions are considered impotent by some. Is any one actually having problems killing game with cup and core bullets? I shot my first deer with a Rem core lokt from a 30Rem. One shot ,one dead deer. I have been using cup and core bullets since then (1962) and have never had a decent hit fail to kill what I shot in short order. Now granted I'm not talking hunting dangerous game in Africa, but is anyone having cup and cores fail to kill game? I haven't hunted brown bear but I believe a 400gr Hornady RN from my 416Rem would do one in from any angle. Can someone explain why I need the latest most expensive bullet there is?

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    I don't see that there is a need but a want. I think most of it is in advertising, the company is trying to sell you what they think is the best thing on the market. Obviously there have been a lot of advancements since 1962. People want the latest and greatest and a lot of these bullets are are more accurate than what they used to be.
    "...arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe...Horrid mischief would ensue were the good deprived of the use of them." -Thomas Paine

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    Some of the new bullets are quite accurate but in my case and I suspect in many others the added cost of these bullets would be better spent and groups would improve more by more field position shooting of cheaper bullets. I do not dispute the premium bullets being accurate or staying together better at high velocity impact. I do think you would need to shoot at impact velocities over 2800 before there would be much benefit from the tougher bullets. At impact velocities below about 2000 fps the tougher bullets may actually be less effective than cup and core. There have been a lot of advancments since 1962 but I do wonder about some of the "advancments". Pre 64 Win 70s are still well thought of by many folks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    Can someone explain why I need the latest most expensive bullet there is?
    You're just not "in" if you don't. Can't you see that? They're the iPod/iPad/iPhone/Kindle/Android of the hunting world. How can you look yourself in the mirror, much less face your fellow hunters if you aren't using the latest technology?

    Sheesh man, get with it!!!!

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    Why handicap yourself from the get-go when there is a better product out there to be used? Is it because the price is too high on the newer stuff, or you like being cheap? Or is it a retro thing? Cup-and-core is a thing of the past.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    I read all the hype about the new bullets being the only way to go. Even the Nosler Partitions are considered impotent by some. Is any one actually having problems killing game with cup and core bullets? I shot my first deer with a Rem core lokt from a 30Rem. One shot ,one dead deer. I have been using cup and core bullets since then (1962) and have never had a decent hit fail to kill what I shot in short order. Now granted I'm not talking hunting dangerous game in Africa, but is anyone having cup and cores fail to kill game? I haven't hunted brown bear but I believe a 400gr Hornady RN from my 416Rem would do one in from any angle. Can someone explain why I need the latest most expensive bullet there is?
    They still work, mostly, unless they fail. But if the animal dies is it a failure? Your legs can get you to the grocery store as well as a rusted out Ford Pinto can. But so will a nice new Ford F250 Super Duty. It is all about choices and options and using the right tool for the right job that you are happy with.
    Tennessee

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    Remington core-lokt, the deadliest mushroom in the forest...
    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind."

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunbugs View Post
    Remington core-lokt, the deadliest mushroom in the forest...
    You must not have seen an A-Frame bullet all mushroomed.

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    C&C bullets have been and will continue to be very good choices for a lot of shooting scenarios so long as those in authority do not make them illegal for hunting & targets. I continue to use them for a lot of hunting and have absolute confidence that they will perform what I require of them. To suggest that they are in some way inferior is either ignorance,naïveté or intentionally misleading. C&C bullets are not inferior, they are simply different. This is not to say that I do not care for modern bullet technology, as I most certainly do appreciate recent developments in monometal and bonded bullets. However, I hunt many different types of game and have different requirements/expectations for most of them. For my hunting I frequently select traditional C&C bullets, knowing I’ve chosen the best tool (at least an eminently useful tool) for the job at hand.
    Foolishness is a moral category, not an intellectual one.

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    Interesting thread. I find myself going full circle on bullets. After using most of the expensive brands (and with good results) I have slowly find myself buying more Hornadys interlocks. Now a days my "premium" bullets are Nosler Partition seconds.
    If I need really good penetraion I just use solids. So far they have worked very well on moose and caribou.

    Get this, my last PWS black bear was shoot with (gasp) cheap Speer bullets. The only one I recovered had a perfect mushroom.
    Tennessee

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    And really, "cup and core" is a misnomer, A "cup" in bullet terminoligy is an unfinished jacket. And a core, by itself is just that, a core. So really, in my humble opinion, what we are discussing here is traditional copper jacketed, lead core hunting bullets. I know I'm being picky, but a cup isn't a jacket. And if they don't work well, please tell all the brown bear, moose and other game that have been killed with them that they aren't really dead. If I'm picking fragments of bullet out of a dead animal, did the bullet not kill it?
    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind."

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    I have shot both types of bullets. My 338-06 did not like 210 partitions, but it loved 210 TTSX. So I went with the 210 TTSX. They are expensive, but after buying a box a payday I have started to get a good stash. For my 280AI it didn't like barnes, but loved Accubonds, so that is what I shot out of that rifle. I would not have any heart break of using a cup and core bullets, I just go with what the rifle likes. I will say that the 210 TTSX hits like a freight train, and everything I have shot has opened like they said it would. I don't know about the accubonds; I hope to find out in a few weeks on a sheep.

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    Well I have never been nor ever will be in the "in crowd" and I do like older stuff as a lot of it is made of real wood and steel. My go to big game rifle is a 1952 Win M70 in 300H&H using (gasp) 180gr Speer btspt. The last two I put into moose went into ribs and came out the far shoulder. They probably failed but the moose went in the freezer. My favorite small game rifle is a 1921 M92Win in 25/20 using (OMG) cast bullets. I am cheap and do like things of the past and I don't own any of those Ipad/ pod/ phone/ kindle/ or android things either. I don't look in the mirror much, that guy is ugly, and I try to keep away from other hunters so they won't see my out dated equiptment. I guess it's ok that the cup and core built bullets are a thing of the past cause so am I. Maybe you just have to be old enough to know how to use them right.

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    That's OK rbuck, those that know ya like ya and often seek your advice on such matters. My go to freezer filler is an old Remington sportsman in .270 shooting those darn Hornday 140 gr BTSP. Its taken Enough Critters from Montana to Kodiak to say they work just fine. As I look at my shelf of Misc. Junk I see lots of Hornday, Sierra, and a few Nosler Part, Oh and about 300 cast Boolits, cause they wont slip their core.LOL

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    Thanks Jeff. I think some of these fellers are trying to hurt my feelings. Good thing I don't have any.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    My favorite small game rifle is a 1921 M92Win in 25/20 using (OMG) cast bullets.
    Now yer talkin!!!! I'm a big fan of older rounds and guns too, especially the 25-20.

    Heck, I like old stuff so much the last few head I've taken were with a .610 round ball weighing 345 grains and loafing along at 1600fps. Sounds goofy, but when you think about it that's heavier than most 375's at a velocity comparable to their long range impact, and hitting hair at a diameter modern bullets can only hope to achieve late in the wound channel. I've never managed to recover one, but judging by the exit hole, there's some expanding going on, too. But of course, I have to hunt well in order to get shots within my self-imposed 50 yards. Makes the cup and core seem kinda newfangled, doesn't it?

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    Good thread, thanks. Also to consider is the lead vs no lead thing and having some fragments in your meat. This has been hashed out in other treads, but may be worth mentioning here. I shoot the tough monometal bullets in the fast shooters and whatever works in the slower guns. I try to practice with my hunting rounds so my range sessions are a little more expensive than if I used cheaper plinking rounds.

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    I know i schwacked a buck on Wednesday with a 150 gr Speer hotcore flat-base spitzer out of a .308 Win at 200 yds with a SINGLE SHOT (gasp!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by L. G. View Post
    I know i schwacked a buck on Wednesday with a 150 gr Speer hotcore flat-base spitzer out of a .308 Win at 200 yds with a SINGLE SHOT (gasp!)
    Nice job, but no pics means it didn't happen...
    Foolishness is a moral category, not an intellectual one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    Well I have never been nor ever will be in the "in crowd" and I do like older stuff as a lot of it is made of real wood and steel. My go to big game rifle is a 1952 Win M70 in 300H&H using (gasp) 180gr Speer btspt. The last two I put into moose went into ribs and came out the far shoulder. They probably failed but the moose went in the freezer. My favorite small game rifle is a 1921 M92Win in 25/20 using (OMG) cast bullets. I am cheap and do like things of the past and I don't own any of those Ipad/ pod/ phone/ kindle/ or android things either. I don't look in the mirror much, that guy is ugly, and I try to keep away from other hunters so they won't see my out dated equiptment. I guess it's ok that the cup and core built bullets are a thing of the past cause so am I. Maybe you just have to be old enough to know how to use them right.
    rbuck, You can hunt with me. That is if you can get past my lever action rifles and single action revolvers. Both usually loaded with some sort of hard cast bullet. I know it would be a stretch but is it okay if my rifle and pistol are the same caliber?

    Dan

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