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Thread: Just Ordered A New Reamer

  1. #1
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    Default Just Ordered A New Reamer

    Made the decision, took the plunge, and ordered a new reamer from Pacific Tool & Gauge.

    Back in early 2003 I imported a ZKK-602 in .375 H&H from Kamloops B.C. I then had a fellow in Prescott AZ rechamber to .375 Weatherby about three months before Weatherby re-introduced the cartridge. I could never get the rifle to hit the target.

    Last year I sent it to Jim Brockman to see what he could to with it. He found the receiver had been twisted 0.060" out of alignment. He milled Talley rings to take this into account, and did some other work, the end result is now I can make 3" groups with my best loads. No joy on that.

    I have another 602 in .375 that I was going to build up from scratch, but decided to see what Jim could do for me with a good reamer. I think the problems with the other rifle are due to the enormous chamber, and the original Weatherby free-bore which is 0.750" long! Combine that to the very easy entry to the rifling of 0.261" and a bullet isn't fully engaging the rifling until 1.0105" of virtual free-flight down the bore.

    This reamer will be a "match grade" reamer for a very tight chamber.
    The following changes:
    Neck diameter: 0.405" to 0.401", which is 0.001" over the neck diameter of two full boxes of original 1958 .375 Weatherby cartridges I have.
    Cartridge case mouth to free-bore: 0.0145" to 0.010".
    Free-bore diameter: 0.376" to 0.3754".
    Free-bore length: 0.735" to 0.125".
    Throat (length of entry into the rifling): 0.261" to 0.100"
    Angle of rifling entry: 1*-19-0 to 1*-30.

    While this isn't a target chamber by any stretch, I believe it will be a significant improvement over the sloppy factory chamber, while still having more than enough room to seat-out long mono-metal projectiles.

    Once the reamer is here I am going to send the rifle and reamer to Jim in Idaho and have him work his magic. Besides the rechamber he'll float the barrel, pillar bed the action, do some action work and re-cut the barrel crown. It'll look like a plain-jane 602, but I think she'll be able to place the shots where I want them.

    Last thing I'll do is have a Wilson-type micrometer bullet seater made so I can get the full benefits of the better chamber. We'll see.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

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    Always love the details. Keep us informed.
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    Yah, my real brain-twister right now is: what will I do with twisted sister? Maybe have her re-barreled to something really exotic like the new (2003), .465 H&H? But hey, I already have a heavy rifle, really don't need another. I don't think anyone would want to buy it. The action is perfectly fine, and with good sights on the barrel, it would make a fine rifle for close in work. But for scope use, the rings on it will have to be used.

    Shouldn't take Pacific long to grind the reamer as it is a stocked item, they'll just take one off-the-shelf and grind it smaller for the "match" dimensions. A couple weeks it should be here.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitroman View Post
    Yah, my real brain-twister right now is: what will I do with twisted sister? Maybe have her re-barreled to something really exotic like the new (2003), .465 H&H? But hey, I already have a heavy rifle, really don't need another. I don't think anyone would want to buy it. The action is perfectly fine, and with good sights on the barrel, it would make a fine rifle for close in work. But for scope use, the rings on it will have to be used.
    I naturally think rebarrel when I'm changing calibers, but in this case you might think rebore. You have a lot of options from .400 to .475 on a standard H&H case that would be interesting, though I'd lean towards a scoped rifle with a bore smaller than .458. Something like the 470 Capstick or a 21" Lott with iron sights would impress me and both would be fairly light considering the present .375 contour making great candidates for iron sighted rifles. Otherwise I'd be tempted to get away from the rifle and start over. Building on actions with known manufacturer defects is not terribly enticing or cost effective IME. It's doable, but not enticing.
    Foolishness is a moral category, not an intellectual one.

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    Default DGR with tight chamber

    Just a thought - is a tight chamber a good idea in a dangerous game rifle? Looks a small alount of crud, dirt, etc. could present a problem at a critical time.

    I've got a ZKK-602 in .375 H&H I imported in '84 but the reverse safety always scared me. I've never got around to changing it. I finally got the proper scope mounts for it; I need to take it out and see how well it shoots.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nitroman View Post
    Yah, my real brain-twister right now is: what will I do with twisted sister? Maybe have her re-barreled to something really exotic like the new (2003), .465 H&H? But hey, I already have a heavy rifle, really don't need another. I don't think anyone would want to buy it. The action is perfectly fine, and with good sights on the barrel, it would make a fine rifle for close in work. But for scope use, the rings on it will have to be used.

    Shouldn't take Pacific long to grind the reamer as it is a stocked item, they'll just take one off-the-shelf and grind it smaller for the "match" dimensions. A couple weeks it should be here.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    Just a thought - is a tight chamber a good idea in a dangerous game rifle? Looks a small alount of crud, dirt, etc. could present a problem at a critical time.

    I've got a ZKK-602 in .375 H&H I imported in '84 but the reverse safety always scared me. I've never got around to changing it. I finally got the proper scope mounts for it; I need to take it out and see how well it shoots.
    No, I don't think it would be a good idea. This one is for moose and being around in areas that might have a bear like when berry picking. If I go out for bear, then I will take the .500.

    After loading a cartridge, I will use the die to run the loaded shell into it to make sure it will fit by ironing out any imperfections in the case. But you are correct that a little piece of something could spell trouble. I have these embarrassing rubber things that look like...well, you know...that fit over the end of the muzzle to prevent that from happening. My BIL gave them to me for Christmas.

    I don't know if there is enough metal around the chamber to make re-boring an option. When re-chambered, one turn of the breech is removed, then the new reamer is inserted to cut the new chamber. It is something to think about. There is also the .400 H&H.
    I think the receiver became twisted when the barrel was removed originally to do the re-chambering.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

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    Here ya go:

    The fireformed case on the left has a 350 grain Barnes Original loaded backwards in an attempt to show where the rifling begins. It's way out there. On the right we have an original 1958 cartridge with a 300 grain soft. You can't see it but the ogive continues into the case neck as the diameter at the closest point I could measure was just under 0.373". That bullet had to fly a long ways 'till it made contact with the rifling, but that was how Fred managed to get so much velocity out of his cartridges without them blowing the rifle up.

    And yes, I know I shouldn't have trimmed my cases before fireforming. The good thing is I've only fireformed and trimmed about 20 out of my 200 cases.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

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    Not sure how the receiver would be twisted from the rebarreling - every receiver wrench I've seen grips the receiver around the front ring. Not even sure how it would ever get twisted - I'm assuming the back bridge is twisted in relation to the front receiver ring.

    I've got a pre-64 Mdl 70 .375 H&H barrel that was re-chambered to .375 Weatherby and chrome lined by Weatherby. When I get time I'll try to do a chamber cast and/or check the throat in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitroman View Post
    I think the receiver became twisted when the barrel was removed originally to do the re-chambering.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitroman View Post
    After loading a cartridge, I will use the die to run the loaded shell into it to make sure it will fit by ironing out any imperfections in the case.
    I kinda doubt that will work. Dies are made so that the neck is squeezed undersize, then the expander ball pulls them back up to correct inside diameter at the neck. With the bullet in the neck plus the case wall thickness in the loaded round....

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    I kinda doubt that will work. Dies are made so that the neck is squeezed undersize, then the expander ball pulls them back up to correct inside diameter at the neck. With the bullet in the neck plus the case wall thickness in the loaded round....
    You are correct in how most dies sets work. For some of my cartridges I have dies that only size the body, or even just the base, allowing the neck to be untouched. To resize the necks another die is used that doesn't touch the body, but has inserts that fit in the die with the inside diameter of the insert the size I want the neck to be squeezed down too. I can use this die to work on several different cartridges as long as the cases are roughly the same shoulder diameter (so they'll fit into the die).
    The bullet seater is made to hold the cartridge just like the chamber of the rifle, the bullet is dropped into the top of the die which is reamed to a gentle interference fit, then a plunger pushes the bullet down into the neck. This keeps the bullet and cartridge case in alignment.
    There are a few more steps, and it does take an investment in time to load this way, but I am in no great hurry and enjoy working with the little tools. Will it make a difference? To be truthful: probably not, but it is fun!
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitroman View Post
    ...but it is fun!
    There you have it, and I agree completely!

    A few guys climb on tall horses or stand on boxes to tout THEIR way as the best and only way. Maybe it's some psychological need left over from grammar school, but it's so much balderdash for an adult. Do what's fun for you, and laugh at the guys who can't stand it that you're ignoring them.

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    WOO-WHOOO!!!

    Just called PTG and my reamer is on the floor being ground as I was speaking to the nice lady who answered the telephone. I LOVE IT!!!
    Now I have to find a box for the stock and get my mailing tube (I use 4" ABS pipe), out of storage to mail the barreled action to Brockman. All without my wife finding out. That'll be almost as exciting as getting this project going!
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitroman View Post
    All without my wife finding out. That'll be almost as exciting as getting this project going!
    Good luck with that . . . better to ask forgiveness than ask permission. I keep trinkets stocked away for those times when she figures out what I did, “but I up these diamond ear rings for you while I was there.“ I find a $100 Visa gift card seems to trump a $500 expenditure if I have it reedy in advance with some “just thinking of you“ slop scribbled on the tag so I can whip it right out. Sure hope she don’t read this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    Good luck with that . . . better to ask forgiveness than ask permission. I keep trinkets stocked away for those times when she figures out what I did, “but I up these diamond ear rings for you while I was there.“ I find a $100 Visa gift card seems to trump a $500 expenditure if I have it reedy in advance with some “just thinking of you“ slop scribbled on the tag so I can whip it right out. Sure hope she don’t read this.
    Do you really believe for even a second that she doesn't already know and see right through you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphina View Post
    Do you really believe for even a second that she doesn't already know and see right through you?
    We have to be careful, very, very careful about what we look at on the comp, what we talk about ect. We do not change any of our usual routine, and keep silent on the toy-thoughts. Most of the research is done at work during lunch break, so no evidence to be found on the comp at home. NO discussions with other like-minded males except when away, and always leaving a gap of a couple hours so no flush of excitement will be visible when spousal unit around.
    Everything done in cash. Use a cheap pre-paid cell to throw away after the calls made. Once it is here, it is left in the storage unit for a few months until being moved into the gunsafe. There, it will slowly be moved towards the front. When spousal unit discovers the rifle, we all can say (truthfully I might add), "oh, I've had that for seven months now, bought it last summer), and since it is true, and she didn't discover it before it came into the house, it is all fair play. She can say nothing 'cause we got it past her.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphina View Post
    Do you really believe for even a second that she doesn't already know and see right through you?
    Sometimes yes sometimes no, for the no times she knows I‘m buying her off and she plays the same game back when she wants something. I just found computer plotter paper cutting thing in her scrap booking stuff she has been hiding . . . I haven’t decided what the “tax” will be for that yet, she doesn’t plan the bribe in advance like I do.

    I had a $7000 saw mill out in the shop for a year before she found it, by then I had made the money back with it and then some so I was all set with the accounting to show no bribe was needed. Better to ask forgiveness than permission and we win one once in a while and wind up not needing to ask for ether.
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    Wow guys, that sounds like an awful lot of energy going into all of that deception!
    Personally, I'd rather spend my energy on hunting, fishing, shooting or lovemaking!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphina View Post
    Wow guys, that sounds like an awful lot of energy going into all of that deception!
    Personally, I'd rather spend my energy on hunting, fishing, shooting or lovemaking!
    "Deception" is a harsh word in this context. I like to think more along the lines of simply "unknowing", this way it is just a surprise. Plus we all do the other pleasant things too.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphina View Post
    Wow guys, that sounds like an awful lot of energy going into all of that deception!
    Personally, I'd rather spend my energy on hunting, fishing, shooting or lovemaking!
    The whole point is to save energy, arguing about if this or that is a wise investment, needed, worth the price, and so on takes a heck of a lot more energy than keeping my mouth shut and buying a trinket in case I‘m found out. Also asking in advance guarantees one of us doesn’t get our way therefore all those things you’d rather be doing take a hit as well. Been doing good my way for 28 years so I think I’ll stand pat.
    Andy
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    AAAaaarrrgggghhh!!!

    Reamer still not here. Maybe tomorrow. It's been five weeks now since I faxed in the order, and it wasn't a full-on custom reamer. Maybe they had no .375 Weatherby reamers on the shelf and so had to start from scratch.

    All good things come to those who have patience...but how about those who understand the concept but have an over-developed sense of anticipation?
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

    Better living through chemistry (I'm a chemist)

    You can piddle with the puppies, or run with the wolves...

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