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Thread: Kenai Late Sockeye Escapement

  1. #1
    Member AKArcher's Avatar
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    Default Kenai Late Sockeye Escapement

    There have been many speculations as to how there could be so many Sockeye returning. Some say the numbers a flawed. Some say our F&G have the management all screwed up.

    As of July 27th there were 1.27 Mil fish counted with 23 more days of counting to go.
    2007 we had 1.23M
    2008 just over 900K
    2009 1.09M
    2010 1.29M

    Has anyone given any thought to the fact that the Earthquake and following Tsunami in Japan may have wiped out a lot of the Japanese fishing fleet thus they're not out in the open ocean?

    We really don't know where the salmon go once they leave the near coastal waters. I am willing to accept that maybe someone does. I also would be willing to accept that just maybe they aren't fishing/harvesting this year.

    Your thoughts?
    When all else fails...ask your old-man.


    AKArcher

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    With the exception of a few hot periods the sport fishing and dipnetting this year simply does not reflect the counts.

    Either the counts in previous years were even lower than estimated and adjusted OR the new numbers are much high. In any event - the numbers this years don't compare with previous years - the fish in the river just aren't there.

    Of course the comm guys are doing great as usual so if the escapement is met it is an absolutely fantastic year per the management plan - the F&G guys are doing there job very well: "managing the run primarily for commercial harvest".

    As for the rest of us- we had "ample opportunity" at least for a day or two. If you weren't there - tough luck!

    We can only hope that someday we will get more consideration for our wants and needs. Keep screaming and speaking up and something things may change.


    Quote Originally Posted by AKArcher View Post
    There have been many speculations as to how there could be so many Sockeye returning. Some say the numbers a flawed. Some say our F&G have the management all screwed up.

    As of July 27th there were 1.27 Mil fish counted with 23 more days of counting to go.
    2007 we had 1.23M
    2008 just over 900K
    2009 1.09M
    2010 1.29M

    Has anyone given any thought to the fact that the Earthquake and following Tsunami in Japan may have wiped out a lot of the Japanese fishing fleet thus they're not out in the open ocean?

    We really don't know where the salmon go once they leave the near coastal waters. I am willing to accept that maybe someone does. I also would be willing to accept that just maybe they aren't fishing/harvesting this year.

    Your thoughts?
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Member Hayduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    With the exception of a few hot periods the sport fishing and dipnetting this year simply does not reflect the counts.
    .
    That does not reflect every report I have gotten this year. Every dipper I know limited (including myself). Every indication is this was a banner year for reds on the Kenai. Even on great years there will be down tides or days. We caught 8 fish on one tide cycle and 27 the next. The 27 fish were all netted in 90 minutes.

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    You generally only hear from the people that had good luck - not from the ones that bummed out. You and your frineds are also most likely experienced dipnetters - there should be "ample opportunity" for most of us. With these kinds of numbers there should be more good periods than bad- the daily counts show day after day of fish arriving - not the significant ups and downs.

    There are certainly hot and slow periods but I talked to many people on the days I was down there that got few if any fish.

    Also check out the rod and reel guys on both the upper and lower river. Dipnetting is only one indication of the run.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hayduke View Post
    That does not reflect every report I have gotten this year. Every dipper I know limited (including myself). Every indication is this was a banner year for reds on the Kenai. Even on great years there will be down tides or days. We caught 8 fish on one tide cycle and 27 the next. The 27 fish were all netted in 90 minutes.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    TVguy--You are the odd man out on this one! You should know that with salmon runs timing is everything. Evidently your timing this year was off since this was, by almost all accounts (dippers and sports), one of the best sockeye returns to the Kenai River in recorded history. They are still harvesting them at a good rate down at the mouth if you are in doubt or still need fish. I live near the river mouth and check out both the shore and boat dippers nearly every day. Sure, it is possible to miss a tide, but overall it has been the best I have ever seen. My sport fish friends who live upriver have had a fantastic year and have not even bothered to dip. Sockeye will continue to enter the river in reasonably good numbers for a week to 10 days. So if you still need fish come on down and try your luck again. Maybe your timing will be better, and sincerely, Good Luck!

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    TVguy--You are the odd man out on this one! . . Evidently your timing this year was off . . if you still need fish come on down and try your luck again. Maybe your timing will be better, and sincerely, Good Luck!
    Bingo . .

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    Bingo . .
    I agree 100% as well.
    I missed the bulk of the run being on the slope.
    Still got what we needed dipping on Thursday. Could have easily gotten way more than we needed.
    There have been some slow times from reports I have heard but they all still got their fish.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

    "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKArcher View Post
    Has anyone given any thought to the fact that the Earthquake and following Tsunami in Japan may have wiped out a lot of the Japanese fishing fleet thus they're not out in the open ocean?

    We really don't know where the salmon go once they leave the near coastal waters. I am willing to accept that maybe someone does. I also would be willing to accept that just maybe they aren't fishing/harvesting this year.

    Your thoughts?
    I can only speculate but I doubt that the Japan fishing fleet had much of an impact. The treaties and enforcement on the Japan fishing fleet is pretty good. The squid fishery is limited to pretty far south and UCI fish tend to rear and migrate in the Gulf of Alaska. I believe that enforcement records show that countries farther south than Japan do more illegal fishing and they were not impacted by the earthquake. So while I am open to further discussion I believe we are seeing good marine survival based on the natural system rather than the lack of fishing by Japan. Just an opinion of course - I think someone will probably look into it or others on this forum with more information may shed some light on this topic.

    Relative to TV and no fish - what can one say - you do not catch 5 million fish in UCI - most of which are probably Kenai and put less than 1 million fish in the Kenai. Just does not happen so even if the counts are high there is still alot of fish in the river just based on the commercial harvest numbers..

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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak
    We can only hope that someday we will get more consideration for our wants and needs. Keep screaming and speaking up and something things may change.
    Unbelievable. tvfinak has 1.4 million sockeye...so many that the dipnet fishery has been liberalized to 24/7 fishing since the 20th...and sportfishing limits have been doubled since the 21st. A quarter-million sockey hit the Kenai alone the weekend of the 16-17, and another quarter-million hit the weekend of the 23-24 - perfect timing for the working force to take advantage. Since then the daily average has been almost 60,000. Just spoke to my neighbor who's relatives from Anchorage killed 74 this weekend.

    Everyone is smiling...except for tvfinak...he won't be smiling no matter how many he gets...well, at least until he pulls off his anti-commercial fishing agenda. Truly pathetic.

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    Default tell how great the run is to people on the upper river

    Yep - we all know gramps! You and all your friends all get their limits every year in the first three or six casts no matter when or where they go anywhere on the river. Of course as a mouthpiece for the comm guys we wouldn't expect to hear anything else.

    How much time did you spend on the north beach this year? How many people did you talk to that went home with few or no fish? Of course we all know the answer - everyone without exception limited out in one tide or less - right? Don't know how I managed to see all the empty handed people that you somehow missed.

    You might also visit the upper river this year and explain to all the folks up there in the Cooper Landing area how great the run is this year and even how great it was last year (even though it got shut down early). Stop in a few of the struggling businesses and tell them your line and see the reception you get.

    Of course in your opinion any fish that doesn't spawn or get caught in the nets to be sold is a waste anyway. They all get freezer burnt and taken to the dump by the tons next year.

    For the record I did get 18 reds and 1 flounder dipnetting this year. Only took 2 trips and I got all of mine Thurs. althought I did fish parts of 3 other days. Of course I probably could have done better in my boat but since it is a 2 stroke I can't use it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grampyfishes View Post
    Unbelievable. tvfinak has 1.4 million sockeye...so many that the dipnet fishery has been liberalized to 24/7 fishing since the 20th...and sportfishing limits have been doubled since the 21st. A quarter-million sockey hit the Kenai alone the weekend of the 16-17, and another quarter-million hit the weekend of the 23-24 - perfect timing for the working force to take advantage. Since then the daily average has been almost 60,000. Just spoke to my neighbor who's relatives from Anchorage killed 74 this weekend.

    Everyone is smiling...except for tvfinak...he won't be smiling no matter how many he gets...well, at least until he pulls off his anti-commercial fishing agenda. Truly pathetic.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    You're making yourself look silly.

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    Some of your positions I referenced are pretty silly - esp. the "tons of freezer burnt salmon going to the dump".

    And sorry - I left out the comm guys "living in harmony with the river".


    Quote Originally Posted by Grampyfishes View Post
    You're making yourself look silly.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    ...and sillier.

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    Do not be hard on TV's comments about experience fishing not everyone catches fish when they go fishing it even happens with the commercial fishermen the catch is never equally distributed among each participants plus many people say they caught more when they didn't it is those quiet ones like Murkowski's aid we have to keep an eye out for.

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    It's not his fishing experience that makes him look silly.

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