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Thread: Bear protection , Single or Double action

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    Default Bear protection , Single or Double action

    OK getting a pistol for fishing, bow hunting, berry picking, gold panning. I am considering a 50AE Magnum research single action or a 460 S&W 5 inch. I dont hand gun hunt, this is strictly a hits the fan deal. I like the thought of the 5 inch bareled 460 , 45 long colt, 454, 460 and double action but a chunk to carry. The 50ae has a shorter barrel and would be more compact. To be honest in most of my cases on the Kenai pennisula i should be aware a bear is near but there is always that OH SH_T when I might be surprised than a double action might be best. What do YOU carry. Forget the long guns as it would be on the bank and not taken bow hunting.

    Thanks

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Most folks shoot DA single action.I see no plus for either side.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    I think it depends on what you are accostomed to and train with. I carry and train DA/DAO as part of my job so when I needed a heavy hitter I chose a DA revolver. Under stress I'm going to react the same way.

    One of my buds shoots and carries SAs mostly and even shoots DAs SA, so that's what he'd default to. Pick one method or the other and stick with it.
    Now what ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevelyn View Post
    I think it depends on what you are accostomed to and train with. I carry and train DA/DAO as part of my job so when I needed a heavy hitter I chose a DA revolver. Under stress I'm going to react the same way.

    One of my buds shoots and carries SAs mostly and even shoots DAs SA, so that's what he'd default to. Pick one method or the other and stick with it.
    That's probably the most rational summary of this I've ever read. I've been shooting DA for over 40 years and a whole lot of it. I've even realized a couple of times that I shot deer DA when there was all the time in the world for SA. It's just what my brain does. I have to really watch myself and train like crazy before carrying a SA revolver. It doesn't seem to matter how hard I squeeze that SA trigger, the danged hammer just won't cycle back like I want it to.

    About 99% of the guys I know with DA revolvers put one cylinder through using DA, then give up and shoot SA in frustration. DA is only going to work if you train with it, and lots of it. Unless a guy has got more money than a Congressman's favorite constituent, he's going to have to be a reloader to do enough shooting to make a darned bit of difference in his DA accuracy. And even if a reloader, you better have as much money as a Congressman to support all that training.

    Rattle all that in a box, and choice of a DA or SA revolver isn't going to mean phooey. You'll be shooting the DA in SA anyway, unless it's a priority for you to learn to do it DA.

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    Yup, what you do is what you will do . . . if you are a SA guy it doesnít matter if you have a DA or not but if you are a DA guy you better not be packing a SA when the stress hits you. I grew up SA and no matter the gun the web of my hand naturally calks the hammer on draw, I can shoot DA very well but when I have no time to think Iím shooting SA on auto-pilot. A good SA can be just as fast as a DA but ether requires a huge amount of work to get that 2nd round consistently on target with any speed.

    So if you shoot SA ether gun will serve you well. I love the 460V because itís the most versatile hunting handgun I have ever found. You arenít going to be handgun hunting so I see the two choices as even and both overkill for a protection only gun . . . for that duty Iíd be looking at a 454 (shoots 45 too) or a 480 myself.
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    I like simple. I have a Ruger Super Blackhawk that I carry for bear protection. Stainless steel and VERY simple. The other plus side with the Ruger is that the cylinder is slightly longer and the frame is strong which allows for hevier (longer) loads. I am very fond of this gun (I actually currently have three of them).

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    I carried a single action .44 mag for years. Shot many many rounds through it and the cocking action was very fast and natural. HOWEVER, when I knew that with full power "bear" loads I was giving up some speed and accuracy on the follow up shots.

    I finally switched this year to a double action. To "re-train" my brain, I have simply never used the new gun in single action mode. (I also haven't picked up the single action since). When I pick it up, I shoot double action, and that's all there is too it. This spring I also took a couple days worth of intensive revolver training to learn how to properly use it. My "6 shots on target" time improved noticeably over the single action, and I'm certainly not going back.

    The issue I have with the single action is you have to "re-set" your hand with every shot. It's not a big deal with light loads, but with heavy loads and fast shooting it's very difficult to get a consistent grip on followups and either accuracy or speed suffers. After thousands of rounds, I was decent at it, but nowhere near what I could do with a double action after only 400-500 rounds.

    I also really like the speedloader option of a quick reload (although I don't think you can get that with the 460V). Even though I may not have time to use it if a bear charged me, there is nearly equal chance that I would be shooting the bear off my partner and I want the option of carrying on the fight longer then 3 or 4 seconds.

    Just my opinion.

    Yk

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    Your first shot didn't stop her and now she is on you like ugly on an ape. She has you pinned down, and has the forearm of your weak arm in her jaw. But, thankfully you still have control of your revolver. You want a double action or a single action?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PRDATR View Post
    Your first shot didn't stop her and now she is on you like ugly on an ape. She has you pinned down, and has the forearm of your weak arm in her jaw. But, thankfully you still have control of your revolver. You want a double action or a single action?
    That's about the only reason my 44 Mag. is a DA, but even then, I'd probably go on Auto, and thumb back the hammer. Shooting DA just seem UN natural to me.

    When I shoot DA, I'm often surprised that I did as well as I did.

    I think that 460 is too much gun, for a tight situation. When you consider all aspects of bear defense, 45 Colt is plenty gun. Things like proper ammo, and shootability seem more important than Maximum Power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yellowknife View Post
    The issue I have with the single action is you have to "re-set" your hand with every shot. Yk
    That's the issue I have with shooting a DA handgun. The trigger is forward and I naturally hold for that, but when I pull the hammer back & the trigger goes to the rear, I gotta shift my hand for that.

    I usta HATE S&Ws for example, for just that reason. The ones I have now both have Hogue grips, and I don't tend to DROP the gun every time I start to shoot them in SA mode.

    DA trigger pulls in a revolver are long and hard, no matter how smooth they are. Sure, one can learn to shoot DA accurately, but it's not easy.

    I like the grips on a SA, because there "Normal" design will fit most folks hand, because they'll grab it where it will fit.

    Smitty of the North
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    Either one will work well if you practice plenty. Neither will work well if you don't. Ed McGivern's book Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting is well worth plowing through his run on sentence writing style.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PRDATR View Post
    Your first shot didn't stop her and now she is on you like ugly on an ape. She has you pinned down, and has the forearm of your weak arm in her jaw. But, thankfully you still have control of your revolver. You want a double action or a single action?
    Well Iíd rather have one of my old single actions then because Iíd be far less likely to drop it. I can cycle them one handed just as easy as a DA, been doing so a very long time.
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    Well i looked at a 460 S&W 5 inch and its a great gun but to heavy for my use, if i was a hand gun hunter yes but as a last ditch effert it would be in the tent or some where unhandy. I settled on a 480 Ruger Alaskan. Now i just have to practice. I know i give up velocity but I like a big slug and with some punch bullets it should do the job although i hope to never have to test that. I could of gotten the 454 Alaskan and shot long colt but went with the 480 as its a bit lower pressure.

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    Very good pick that will do a fine job. I believe you can have it punched out to 475 Linebaugh if you wanted at some point to get a double ammo gun . . . pretty much just a longer 480.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8mmRem View Post
    Well i looked at a 460 S&W 5 inch and its a great gun but to heavy for my use, if i was a hand gun hunter yes but as a last ditch effert it would be in the tent or some where unhandy. I settled on a 480 Ruger Alaskan. Now i just have to practice. I know i give up velocity but I like a big slug and with some punch bullets it should do the job although i hope to never have to test that. I could of gotten the 454 Alaskan and shot long colt but went with the 480 as its a bit lower pressure.
    And more pleasurable to shoot for extended periods at the range.

  16. #16

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    How about considering the Springfield XD Tactical 45ACP with the 460 Rowland mod? I'm aware of the big debate between revolver vs semi-auto, but do a little research into it and you may be surprised. The 460 Rowland is comparable to the 44.
    http://www.realguns.com/articles/201.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by LonnyG View Post
    How about considering the Springfield XD Tactical 45ACP with the 460 Rowland mod? I'm aware of the big debate between revolver vs semi-auto, but do a little research into it and you may be surprised. The 460 Rowland is comparable to the 44.
    http://www.realguns.com/articles/201.htm
    44 What??

    Certainly not 44 Mag. I'm talking 300 grain Cast bullets, at higher velocities than the Rowland with 240 grain JHPs.

    The Rowland may be adequate, and even have some advantages, but I can't see any in the ballistics.

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    Yes 44 mag, and I agree with you. One advantage Is someone who's maybe never used a hand gun and possibly not wanting to jump straight into a high power revolver. I believe it's a good starting point for bear protection...as one gets more comfortable they can move up from there. Like they say what's the point in a high power revolver if you can't place the shot. The 460 Rowland is a good back up gun till then. Hey some day who knows maybe I'll feel comfortable sporting a S&W 500, but till then it's the XD in 460 Rowland.

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    44mag 200g@1800+fps = 460 Roland 200g@1456fps?
    44mag 330g@1350fps = 460 Roland 230g@1336fps . . . 100g lighter and still slower?

    I agree with Smitty, 460 Roland is powerful but it sure ainít 44mag power. Maybe someday after enough people play with the loads and hardware bugs with 460 Roland it may be in the ballpark but it ainít there yet in any pressure tested data I can find . . . I suspect case volume will be rather limiting though.
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    I normally pack my 480 Ruger that I sent to Wildwest for the Wolverine treatment. What Ruger should have done with their Alaskan! 4 5/8 inch barrel shooting 410 grain WFP bullets at 1200 fps. If that doesn't do it I don't know what will. Jim

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