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Thread: Protest

  1. #1

    Default Protest

    I live in Soldotna. As I was driving to work down K-Beach road around 7:30 AM today(Monday), there was a group of protesters/picketers outside the Fish & Game office holding signs that said things like "SPORT FISHERMEN UNITE" and "SETNETS KILL KINGS". Apparently they think the commercial nets are stealing all their fish.

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    Never mind the targeted in-river killing of the largest of the breeding stock that the guides pride themselves in.

    I'm not anti-guide, anti-commercial, anti-sport, etc, just getting tired of the finger pointing... Particularly on a year when there is way more than enough fish for everyone...

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    Member Hayduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDipper View Post
    "SETNETS KILL KINGS".
    As do; whales, seals, sharks, long lines, gillnets, trawlers, viruses, plug cut herring, sz. 20 prince nymphs, roe under a bobber and herring wrapped K-15's.

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    Member JOAT's Avatar
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    Whew! For a minute I thought you were going to say they were protesting dipnetting. Nice to have the pressure on another scapegoat user group for awhile.

    If only I was in town right now, I'd park a few feet away with a sign protesting "sport" guides and tourists as the demise of the king salmon.
    Winter is Coming...

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    Member c6 batmobile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayduke View Post
    As do; whales, seals, sharks, long lines, gillnets, trawlers, viruses, plug cut herring, sz. 20 prince nymphs, roe under a bobber and herring wrapped K-15's.
    Amen to that.

    I was down on Kenai this weekend and motored past a spot with what I would venture to guess about 4 dozen guide boats all fishing for kings. It was really disgusting. A fish would have a slim chance getting past all 800 lines in the water with bait on them. I assume this probably happens pretty often too so you cant completely blame the com fishery when there are dozens of guides on the river bonking kings left and right.
    Makin fur fins and feathers fly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by c6 batmobile View Post
    Amen to that.

    I was down on Kenai this weekend and motored past a spot with what I would venture to guess about 4 dozen guide boats all fishing for kings. It was really disgusting. A fish would have a slim chance getting past all 800 lines in the water with bait on them. I assume this probably happens pretty often too so you cant completely blame the com fishery when there are dozens of guides on the river bonking kings left and right.
    Wow. y'all give those guides an awful lot of credit! I'm of the opinion that folks with a rod and reel aren't nearly as efficient at clearing an entire river of fish as others want to believe. There's a lot of water around those lures...but maybe I'm wrong. For the record, I'm not a guide, not affiliated with a guide, and haven't used a guide in 20+ years.

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    Member Hayduke's Avatar
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    My point is that the infighting between user groups is kind if nuts. Be glad there are fish to fight over. In OR, it was pretty much all fishing groups vs. Pacific Power. Or vs. the farmers growing potatoes and grain in the desert.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbitten View Post
    Wow. y'all give those guides an awful lot of credit! I'm of the opinion that folks with a rod and reel aren't nearly as efficient at clearing an entire river of fish as others want to believe. There's a lot of water around those lures...but maybe I'm wrong. For the record, I'm not a guide, not affiliated with a guide, and haven't used a guide in 20+ years.
    Have you been boating on the river in July? Yes, they can put a hurt on the Kings, why do you think ADF&G has restrictions like slot limits and bait restrictions at their disposal.

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    Member c6 batmobile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbitten View Post
    Wow. y'all give those guides an awful lot of credit! I'm of the opinion that folks with a rod and reel aren't nearly as efficient at clearing an entire river of fish as others want to believe. There's a lot of water around those lures...but maybe I'm wrong. For the record, I'm not a guide, not affiliated with a guide, and haven't used a guide in 20+ years.
    The river wasnt very wide where they were sitting. I had enough room to boat by but that was about it. I know its not as effective as a net but with that much bait in the water in a narrow area where they have to pass through to get upstream youre certainly limiting the fishes chance by a lot. Guides are good at what they do as well. If they werent catching fish people wouldnt be using them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly1 View Post
    Have you been boating on the river in July? Yes, they can put a hurt on the Kings, why do you think ADF&G has restrictions like slot limits and bait restrictions at their disposal.
    Exactly. They have an impact or else they would be regulated just like you and I. But they spend more time on the river and know the spots to fish so their success rate is much higher.
    Makin fur fins and feathers fly.

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    Member kenaibow fan's Avatar
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    not all guides are good, and just because you have a line in the water, or a line with bait means your going to catch some thing. Not to mention there are plenty of residents out there that are every bit as good as guides if not better. Singeling out a user group doesn't do any thing, every one that leaves a mark on that river is part to blame. Comm guys kill kings......and dip netters....and guides........and sportfish peeps..........and every thing else. For as much as that river gets pimped out it is actually in good condition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by c6 batmobile View Post
    Amen to that.

    I was down on Kenai this weekend and motored past a spot with what I would venture to guess about 4 dozen guide boats all fishing for kings. It was really disgusting. A fish would have a slim chance getting past all 800 lines in the water with bait on them. I assume this probably happens pretty often too so you cant completely blame the com fishery when there are dozens of guides on the river bonking kings left and right.

    Its almost a guarantee that 99 percent of the people fishing with those guides don't have thier own boat, so its disgusting to you that people that don't own boats are allowed to use the river

    OR

    It was just the shear number of people overcrowding the river that was disgusting.


    I have to assume that yourself being a responsible angler chose not to put a line in the water since there was already so much pressure for the day. You say its disgusting due to all the boats and lines in the water but when it comes down to it most people who say this add their own boat and line to the mix as well.



    I do understand your venting your frustration with the situtation, as am I although my frustration is enhanced by being 5400 miles away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by c6 batmobile View Post
    Amen to that.

    I was down on Kenai this weekend and motored past a spot with what I would venture to guess about 4 dozen guide boats all fishing for kings. It was really disgusting. A fish would have a slim chance getting past all 800 lines in the water with bait on them. I assume this probably happens pretty often too so you cant completely blame the com fishery when there are dozens of guides on the river bonking kings left and right.
    The point being made is the COMMERICAL fisherman are united and have a big voice in this dog fight. The sport fisherman are getting the scraps left over. Just like Wall Street and the little man. If all sport fisherman would stand together they may not lose as many fishing spots in the past. As soon as the Commerical fisherman feels a little heat they point to the guides and charters.

    Read what is really going on: Example, 700,000 reds were caught while only 2700 made it to the fish counter up the river on the Kenai this year........ Did the guides catch the rest? The sport fisherman needs to stand together and get their voices and right heard. The commerical guys are organized and have all the seats on the boards. Vote out the state senators out who keep putting the commerical guys in charge. Sarah Palin put commerical guys on the board and now the Gov. put a commerical fishing lady in charge of the whole shooting match.......... vote him out....... that is how the game works. Until the sports fisherman unite this will not stop.
    I KNOW I KNOW all over the chart but you get my point. I need to get back to work before.........

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    Member Hayduke's Avatar
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    I think the guides have a pretty strong lobby as well. I think the only voice that really isn't heard is the private sports anglers.

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    If the private sports angler would realize that is what is good for the guides is good for them, and stand together to protest fish and games decision to slow down in river harvest while eo'ing the set net fishery maybe we would get some where. The set nets will kill more kings in one emergency opener than the river will kill all week. Once again, we are back to managing a big red run at the expense of Kenai kings. To me, this is unacceptable. The commercial fishery has enjoyed a fantastic year already. Good for them...... but not at the expense of a poor king run. Fish and Game should have the "balls" to close the Kenai River completely and pull the set nets if they really want to protect the kings. I have heard for years the anti river crowd use the phrase " more, bigger faster...... keep the economic engine running hard" to bash in river users. I think in this case it also applies to the commercial fishery, and it is just as wrong there. When will the fish really come first?

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    Member fullbush's Avatar
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    guides are good for the average sports angler? mmkay

    The average sports angler would be fishing at 5am on the little su if it weren't for the guides, it goes on and on my friend, the guide is not the friend of the average Alaskan citizen, to the contrary.





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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly1 View Post
    Have you been boating on the river in July? Yes, they can put a hurt on the Kings, why do you think ADF&G has restrictions like slot limits and bait restrictions at their disposal.
    Sure I have, and of course those guys catch fish...but I doubt the "hurt" they put on the king stocks is as bad a some want us to believe.

    Slot limits and bait restrictions are mostly political responses which are too late to make a substantial difference. Those restrictions are imposed based on run strength, which is determined once the fish have already beat the gauntlet of comm fishers and set netters. ADFG is forced to respond to the low numbers, and there is only one user group left, thse folks with a rod and reel, all other damage is already done. How many fish are still swimming because of bait restrictions and slot limits? Numbers?

    I don't disagree that there are a lot (too many?) of boats on the river looking for kings, I just don't believe they are all that efficient at killing all the kings. I've seen waaaaay to many kings swim by the boat to believe otherwise.
    Last edited by Frostbitten; 07-25-2011 at 15:44. Reason: additional info

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    Member JOAT's Avatar
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    Yeah, guides are about as good for the sport fisherman as Wal-Mart is to the Ma&Pa grocery store that used to be next door.

    Seeing as how commercial gillnetters are specifically targeting and catching sockeye and guides are specifically targeting and catching kings, I'm trying to figure out how gillnet is the problem here? And to toss dipnetters into the mix? Really? What do the dipnetters take, maybe 10 kings per year? Gimme a break. Lotta finger pointing going the wrong way around here.
    Winter is Coming...

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    Member FishKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOAT View Post
    Yeah, guides are about as good for the sport fisherman as Wal-Mart is to the Ma&Pa grocery store that used to be next door.

    Seeing as how commercial gillnetters are specifically targeting and catching sockeye and guides are specifically targeting and catching kings, I'm trying to figure out how gillnet is the problem here? And to toss dipnetters into the mix? Really? What do the dipnetters take, maybe 10 kings per year? Gimme a break. Lotta finger pointing going the wrong way around here.
    You must be a gillnetter. Like a had a commerical fisherman tell me, he would outlaw all sport fishing and have everyone go to the store and buy the fish. Better for enviroment because less boats on the water and not as many vehicles on the roads. Keep projecting the problem elsewhere and you one will look at you.............................. Wal Mart may not have been good for the mom and Pa store but it is the same as the FBI was on organized crime.

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    Default Follow the money .... as always

    The guides and comm guys make a bunch of money off the fish so they are willing to influence our lawmakers to get what the guides and comm guys want - the opportunity to make more money. They look at the money they spend as an investment in their businesses.

    Us stupid sport guys simply aren't will to spend our money that way- yet we spend a lot of money to go down to the river and come back empty handed.

    Will we ever learn?

    And don't ever forget - "The department shall manage the Kenai River late-run sockeye salmon stocks primarily for commercial uses..." with "reasonable opportunities" for sport fishermen - what ever that means


    Quote Originally Posted by Hayduke View Post
    I think the guides have a pretty strong lobby as well. I think the only voice that really isn't heard is the private sports anglers.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbitten View Post
    Sure I have, and of course those guys catch fish...but I doubt the "hurt" they put on the king stocks is as bad a some want us to believe.

    Slot limits and bait restrictions are mostly political responses which are too late to make a substantial difference. Those restrictions are imposed based on run strength, which is determined once the fish have already beat the gauntlet of comm fishers and set netters. ADFG is forced to respond to the low numbers, and there is only one user group left, thse folks with a rod and reel, all other damage is already done. How many fish are still swimming because of bait restrictions and slot limits? Numbers?

    I don't disagree that there are a lot (too many?) of boats on the river looking for kings, I just don't believe they are all that efficient at killing all the kings. I've seen waaaaay to many kings swim by the boat to believe otherwise.
    First, I have nothing against any of the user groups of our fisheries, there's enough for everyone to get a slice of the pie. Could the fishery be managed better, possibly.

    To think that the guides-as a whole-can't or don't impact the King run is simply being credulous.

    The slot limits and bait restrictions are not "mostly political", they are a couple of management tools that are implemented if escapement goals are in danger of not being met.

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