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Thread: And again

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    I'll make some popcorn, anybody want a drink while I'm up?
    Eccleasties 8:11 Because the sentence against an evil deed is not executed quickly, There for the hearts of the sons of men among them are given fully to do evil.

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    Member tboehm's Avatar
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    Sound like the kids handled themselves well. Prayers sent their way and hopefully they have a full recovery.
    Semper Fi and God Bless

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    They broke my number 1 rule in alaska . Never ever go out unprotected.
    Sounds like it could have been avoided. Best of luck for them.

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    This must be the reason for the popcorn comment. By protection, I'm assuming you're talking about a firearm. If you've read anything about this case, please explain how a firearm would have prevented this attack? Maybe you carry one of those automatic bear engaging weapon systems like they use on the big navy ships? The fact is, there is no gun out there that will help you when you surprise a defensive sow at close range in the brush on the edge of a noisy river. You don't have enough time to draw or even raise a rifle when you're blind-sided at arm's reach.
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    Member jmg's Avatar
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    It is definitely a sad, scary situation, but also reality at times here in Alaska. What had me concerned was that this was an outdoor safety course and yet the ADN article says the following:


    the first person to go around a corner yelled that there was a bear and then started running backward. Then Gottsegen said he looked behind him and saw the bear so he started running down the hill. He said the bear tackled him on the way down.

    Read more: http://www.adn.com/2011/07/25/198428...#ixzz1T8tWcjLB


    Firearms, bear spray, bear bells, and any other gadget aside, seems like the FIRST lesson in an Alaska safety course should be "don't run from bears."
    Never count your days, but rather, make all of your days count.

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    Member Marc Taylor's Avatar
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    Bummer for the kids involved. Could have happened to anyone, but probably not any combination of seven people on this board without there being a dead bear to view once the smoke clears.

    ANY firearm over bear spray any day.

    Taylor

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    Unhappy

    Yeah, the article states that they had bear spray although not readily available. I know along rivers is risky cause its usually brush and also noise is drowned out pretty quickly.

    Still a slower bear year with only a handfull of attacks so far this Summer. No one maimed on the Russian or Anchorage bike paths yet right?
    I come home with an honestly earned feeling that something good has taken place. It makes no difference whether I got anything, it has to do with how the day was spent. Fred Bear

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    Member mekaniks's Avatar
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    Hope they are all ok. No fatalities = Lessons learned....If there is a silver cloud, I bet their bear encounter training is scutinized and changed for the better.

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    When in the woods you are in the animal's territory, not the mall. Protection and common sense are your best bets on living a long life. This pertains anywhere, from bears to meth heads. Would way rather have a problem with a bear than meth head though. Sorry off topic!

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    I read were they had time to say here comes a bear .Thats not blind sided.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JOAT View Post
    This must be the reason for the popcorn comment. By protection, I'm assuming you're talking about a firearm. If you've read anything about this case, please explain how a firearm would have prevented this attack? Maybe you carry one of those automatic bear engaging weapon systems like they use on the big navy ships? The fact is, there is no gun out there that will help you when you surprise a defensive sow at close range in the brush on the edge of a noisy river. You don't have enough time to draw or even raise a rifle when you're blind-sided at arm's reach.
    According to the article they weren't "blind-sided at arm's reach". They saw the bears and started yelling and running.
    "...arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe...Horrid mischief would ensue were the good deprived of the use of them." -Thomas Paine

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    To me it's simply a very sad situation. No doubt they made mistakes; who wouldn't if we scrutinized every possible decision after the fact? It's quite possible that a firearm could have helped; though it's just as possible it would not have made a positive impact. The fact that a group was attacked shows that much of what happened is anomalous behavior on the bear's part. I pray that those hurt will recover and that all in the group will be better for it.

    Praying for grace and peace to them all.
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    The lesson here is DO NOT RUN FROM BEARS. Period.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Heard the NOLS boss man today say that their program is very safe.He stated they have put over 200,000 kids through the program and only two bear attacks,I believe he said four the first one and now seven.I would think eleven out of 200,000 is not a bragging on number.
    Last I heard only one young man is still in very bad shape but prayers for all as I'm sure the bears will be in their dreams for awhile.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Member mekaniks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.No View Post
    The lesson here is DO NOT RUN FROM BEARS. Period.
    That is a tough one to learn for anyone. And especially for someone that hasn't been around bears in the wild before. People's first natural instinct is to run, and then to fight back when attacked. Unfortuantly the bears natural instinct is to chase down anything that is running from it, and put the hurt on anything that fights back. I have been there, and it takes everything you got not to just turn tail and run. But once you realize that the bear is in exactly the same position you are, it still dosent get any easier to hold your ground and back away slowly (or become submissive and cover up if actually attacked, unless blazing away with your prefered bear deterent), it just makes more sense...

    Really hope the kids are all ok. I think 1Cor said it best....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    Heard the NOLS boss man today say that their program is very safe.He stated they have put over 200,000 kids through the program and only two bear attacks,I believe he said four the first one and now seven.I would think eleven out of 200,000 is not a bragging on number.Last I heard only one young man is still in very bad shape but prayers for all as I'm sure the bears will be in their dreams for awhile.
    Wow that guy should not be proud of any incident for sure! Just amazing. Prayers said for all the injured! Must be even more of a terrifying experience for a younger person, bad stuff for sure at any age. Probably require psychologist help to try to put sense to it all.

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    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    NOLS puts you through outdoor stuff that the vast majority of Americans will never encounter. 200,000 kids times 30 days in the field. 6,000,000 man days in the field. I bet that on average there are less than 1 million man days a year by people hunting and hiking in Alaska. How many bear attacks have happened in the last 6 years? Sounds like a pretty safe program to me considering the country they visit ie: areas with no trails in the true wilderness.

    NOLS has a history of learning from it's mistakes and I bet they will integrate better bear awareness into their program.
    Bunny Boots and Bearcats: Utility Sled Mayhem

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    Well, maybe something to add to the curriculum which is firearm use and safety. I mean the course is supposed to teach outdoor leadership and a lot of outdoor recreation is hunting and shooting sports. Also revamp their curriculum on use and availability of bear spray in the woods. I must say, I had two close bear encounters in recent years and formost on my mind was not to run. I wasnt sure what to do but I never considered that as I was fairly certain it would make me look scared and trigger a charge. In both cases I made lots of noise waving my arms but did not back down or did so slowly. Worked so far. Although I most often have a firearm both instances I did not have one.
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    I saw an interview today with one of the victims and he said the attack lasted 7 min.
    That is a long time to witness such horror.

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