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Thread: What you win now, you lose later..

  1. #1
    Member ret25yo's Avatar
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    Default What you win now, you lose later..

    Chitna Dipnetters (using this as a general term of course, and Im trying not to jump to conclusions) seems you win 14,000 acres


    YOU AND EVERYOTHER NON-NATIVE shareholder ALASKAN lost 44000 acres (of free access) Land


    AHTNA is now trading the state for 44,000 acres so the state can take the o'brian creek area (14,000 ACRES)... So yeah.. We heard about some chitna dipnetters assn.. getting some legislators behind them for this.. anyone wanna fill us in on the other side of the story?

    when will people start thinking about more then themselves or there tight group of friends? ... 44000 more acres will be access restricted ...

    off soap box...


    44000 of unit 13 highway of course MP64 - 79??? something like that

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    Member Dirtofak's Avatar
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    This MAY impact. Caribout hunting or access east of Lake Louise road. Access to Crosswinds Lake and surrounding area. Winter Trails, trapping, you name it.



    I googled the crap out of it and cannot find any more info.
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  3. #3
    Member ret25yo's Avatar
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    It's the BIG SECRET... they are also going to MOW the **** out of those woods to increase "moose habitat" BULL****.. If your not aware there is oil and gas involved ... They would not .. would not say who the state representatives or legislators were behind this even when asked point blank 7 times. I find this very "typical" ... go to google earth and see the areas south of the pipeline near glennallen to see how they increased moose habitat.. lol.. there will be fields of predators awaiting..

    If you cant stand behind the troops in Iraq.. Feel free to stand in front of them.

  4. #4

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    Is this effective now or in the works?

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    Member SkinnyD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerod View Post
    Is this effective now or in the works?
    ANILCA passed in 1980, so I wouldn't get my panties in too much of a wad over this.
    Passing up shots on mergansers since 1992.


  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkinnyD View Post
    ANILCA passed in 1980, so I wouldn't get my panties in too much of a wad over this.
    ?????

    Curious if this land swap is completed and O'Brien Creek is open for us this weekend is all. I know plenty about Alaska history, thank you.

  7. #7
    Member Grayling Slayer's Avatar
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    Does this mean I can launch my boat at OBrian Creek next weekend?
    "I'd rather be fishing!"

  8. #8
    Member JOAT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkinnyD View Post
    ANILCA passed in 1980, so I wouldn't get my panties in too much of a wad over this.
    ANILCA is the wrong piece of bad legislation. That one made the federal parks and "can't touch it" wilderness areas. If there was a land swap with Ahtna, that would be under the ANCSA. Without more details, I smell the involvement of a profit hungry Ahtna Minerals Company on a swap like this. Any existing infrastructure within the new area will become as inaccessible as any private land. So, if you trapped there, you won't anymore. If there are trails going in there, they'll be redecorated with "no tresspassing" signs as soon as the deal is done.

    No, you can't launch your boat there next weekend. The final details of these things would take months to years to sort out. You'll have to wait for the public notice before you can start using the area that was swapped.

    I find it hard to believe this is a "done deal" and managed to stay completely under the table. More likely, this is a proposal and hasn't been finalized yet. Who's the gov't folks involved on the other side of this? Public comment may still get your hunting lands saved. I'd at least want a full reconciliation of why we would be giving up public lands at a 3:1 ratio to the private lands in the swap.

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    Member coho slayer's Avatar
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    Disregarding the details of this completely, I really think it'd be a bad idea to create a user-friendly boat launch area on the Copper River. Every yahoo with a boat would show up and it would turn into another Kenai train of dipnetting boats. I guarantee boat-related accidents and deaths would increase dramatically. That could eventually lead to the state restricting boat access altogether. This is a lose-lose any way you cut it to me.

  10. #10
    Member SkinnyD's Avatar
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    woops, meant to say ANCSA (1971)... and I even knew the difference - just goes to show you how legislation gets mucked up in the minds of normal folk
    Passing up shots on mergansers since 1992.


  11. #11
    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coho slayer View Post
    Disregarding the details of this completely, I really think it'd be a bad idea to create a user-friendly boat launch area on the Copper River. Every yahoo with a boat would show up and it would turn into another Kenai train of dipnetting boats. I guarantee boat-related accidents and deaths would increase dramatically. That could eventually lead to the state restricting boat access altogether. This is a lose-lose any way you cut it to me.
    Better brush up on your history. Until a few years ago when the flood remodeled things at O'Brian Creek, there was a boat launch (however rustic) there. True, it was a zoo (not to say that it hasn't been a zoo since), and there were plenty of "yahoos" (also no different than it is now), but I don't believe the post-flood injury/accident statistics are any different that the pre-flood statistics.
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  12. #12
    Member coho slayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    Better brush up on your history. Until a few years ago when the flood remodeled things at O'Brian Creek, there was a boat launch (however rustic) there. True, it was a zoo (not to say that it hasn't been a zoo since), and there were plenty of "yahoos" (also no different than it is now), but I don't believe the post-flood injury/accident statistics are any different that the pre-flood statistics.
    I guess the general sentiment I have about the Copper is that if it gets too popular among users, it's going to be detrimental to the PU people in the long run. The statistics may not support the accident hypothesis I suggested, but more people have river-capable boats than I can ever remember seeing in 35 years of living here. That equates to more users. The Copper River personal use fishery is already kind of last in line to other users in the overall management agenda there, and the numbers of fish that make it into the river really aren't that high and they have to sustain several distinct wild and hatchery runs as well as the subsistence users.

    I don't know if I'm correct or not, but I can foresee a lot of issues if there aren't major improvements and upgrades to the overall Chitina infrastructure. There just isn't enough parking/camping/storage/stores/facilities/fuel stations, etc. to support a full-scale onslaught of users like you see in the Kenai River.

    There's more involved than simply opening up a launch area. If you make it widely usable, there will be other issues that will need to be addressed.

  13. #13
    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coho slayer View Post
    I guess the general sentiment I have about the Copper is that if it gets too popular among users, it's going to be detrimental to the PU people in the long run. The statistics may not support the accident hypothesis I suggested, but more people have river-capable boats than I can ever remember seeing in 35 years of living here. That equates to more users. The Copper River personal use fishery is already kind of last in line to other users in the overall management agenda there, and the numbers of fish that make it into the river really aren't that high and they have to sustain several distinct wild and hatchery runs as well as the subsistence users.

    I don't know if I'm correct or not, but I can foresee a lot of issues if there aren't major improvements and upgrades to the overall Chitina infrastructure. There just isn't enough parking/camping/storage/stores/facilities/fuel stations, etc. to support a full-scale onslaught of users like you see in the Kenai River.

    There's more involved than simply opening up a launch area. If you make it widely usable, there will be other issues that will need to be addressed.
    I can't disagree with your general sentiment. I take some solace that it has always been somewhat of a more difficult and dangerous area to access, and thus somewhat self limiting of the user pressure it bears. I would like to see it stay that way.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
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    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It
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  14. #14
    Member coho slayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    I can't disagree with your general sentiment. I take some solace that it has always been somewhat of a more difficult and dangerous area to access, and thus somewhat self limiting of the user pressure it bears. I would like to see it stay that way.
    Agreed.

    The Copper has always been kind of a Darwin-esque fishery. It's scary enough to weed out a lot of people. I hope that trend continues.

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    You can launch by the bridge over the copper if I remember right. No reason to go back on that narrow POS road....

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