Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 46

Thread: Should they eliminate bait completely on the Kenai and Kasilof?

  1. #1
    Member ysr_racer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Happily in So Cal.
    Posts
    583

    Default Should they eliminate bait completely on the Kenai and Kasilof?

    Should they eliminate bait completely on the Kenai and Kasilof?

    They've got to do something to get more kings in those two rivers. At this rate my grand kids will never get to catch a king.

    No fish = no fisherman. No fisherman = no fisherman $$$
    brad g.
    So Cal, USA
    Visit my Sporting Clays website
    http://www.ysr-racer.com

  2. #2
    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Aberdeen WA
    Posts
    4,516

    Default

    Completely? Doubt that would get much support... but I could live with it. A more measured approach might be to start with a roe ban. That would at least remove a large incentive to bonking the big hens just for the eggs.
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
    http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/uploads/UP12710.jpg
    The KeenEye MD

  3. #3
    Member Mark Collett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Between the Willapa Rivers, United States
    Posts
    467

    Default Might Have To Take It A Step Further

    I don't want to see this happen but wouldn't shutting down all King fishing for a few years be the most protective ?I understand the economic impact would be severe for the area (and a lot of my freinds and neighbors).But if we sincerely want to save this run of fish-----shut fishing down to all user groups until the numbers become sustainable.This radical approach may take 4 to 6 years to be effective enough to make a difference,but is this what it'll take to save the fish ??????????????

  4. #4
    New member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Soldotna
    Posts
    5,639

    Default Overrated economics . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Collett View Post
    . . wouldn't shutting down all King fishing for a few years be the most protective? I understand the economic impact would be severe for the area . .
    It's my belief that the contribution of the Kenai/Kasilof king fishery to the area's economy is grossly overrated. Yes, the KK/king fishery is a viable but small part of our area's total economic base, and it is dwarfed by the economics of the red fishery—dipnetters, flossers, the gill-net industry. Watch Fred Meyer's parking lot . . very little traffic until the reds are in.

    Were the KK/king fishery to disappear for a few years, the area would survive quite nicely as it did before that fishery exploded over the last decade.

    Keep in mind that folks come here for much more than king fishing: bird watchers, kayakers, campers, hikers, photographers, sight-seers, trout/halibut/red anglers, and many, many more all contribute to the area's economy.

    So, no, I don't think the economic impact of shutting down the king fishery would be at all severe. Lots more going on here than that single fishery.

  5. #5
    Member Trakn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Soldotna
    Posts
    241

    Default

    Marcus

    I have to disagree with you there would be a big loss of jobs in the area,,,look in the phone book at the number of guides,lodges,and B & B's in the area. The dipnetters aren't staying at lodges nor the flossers. Where talking tourists they don't drive cars to Fred Myers lodge owners pick them up. The cars you see and the full parking lots are not tourists thats Anchorage down here to rape and pillage and not spend one cent because we have a sales tax. Also dipnetters are not tourists, they don't spend money unless they need more ice.

    Have another cup of coffee and think about who spends money here and who doesn't. And how some people make a living.

  6. #6
    New member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Soldotna
    Posts
    5,639

    Talking No big deal . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Trakn View Post
    Marcus

    I have to disagree with you there would be a big loss of jobs in the area,,,look in the phone book at the number of guides,lodges,and B & B's in the area. The dipnetters aren't staying at lodges nor the flossers. Where talking tourists they don't drive cars to Fred Myers lodge owners pick them up. The cars you see and the full parking lots are not tourists thats Anchorage down here to rape and pillage and not spend one cent because we have a sales tax. Also dipnetters are not tourists, they don't spend money unless they need more ice.

    Have another cup of coffee and think about who spends money here and who doesn't. And how some people make a living.
    Thanks, but the indisputable fact remains, Trakn, that Soldotna becomes a zoo only when the reds come in—May, June, and the first week of July are deader'n a doornail. And, yes, there are lots of guides in the area, most of whom likely service the king fishermen, but the bulk of their business comes in only the last two weeks in July, and most all of those guides have other, full-time jobs elsewhere. Too, check with the city of Kenai for how much the "rape and pillage" dipnetters contribute to their economy. Check with local processors like Custom Seafoods. Finally, cruise Freddy's parking lot during July and count how many license plates are from out-of-state, how many are Alaska rentals, and how many are actually Alaskans. Tourists far, far outnumber Alaskans.

    Don't get me wrong: I know that the king fishery contributes in part to the local economy. But the fishery's contribution is grossly overestimated, especially by those with a vested, economic interest. Should it become necessary or advisable to close the KK/king fishery for a few years in order for the stocks to rebound, the area would barely feel the loss—way too much else going on.

  7. #7
    Member Sockeye Scott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Kenai, AK
    Posts
    82

    Default

    I love king fising, and I also would love to see my kids kids catching kings. It would be a travesty to see the King run disappear. I would be more in favor of a size and bait restriction. Maybe only allowing kings under 30" to be kept and letting all the hogs live on to reproduce and keep the stock sustained.

    By the way, I think that a complete shut down to the King fishery would have a very large impact on the local economy. There are a lot of people who come to the mighty Kenai to try their luck at catching a monster king. Just take a look at the river on a Saturday, or any day of the week, and you will see a lot of tourists, out of towners, and locals spending some quality time on the water. When thery get off the water they will probably spend some quality time at stores, bars, restaurants, etc.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Scott

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    fishhook, ak
    Posts
    1,124

    Default

    Restricting angler numbers would be more productive than restricting means. Personally I do not want to increase the angler to fish caught ratio, but that's just me...


    You want to make the fishery intentionally inefficient?



    This management option has been test-driven on the Little Su, Anchor, Eastside Susitna tribs, Gulkana, etc in recent years.

    It seems roughly analagous to a cute little snoopy band-aid on a limb that is infested with gangrene and needs amputation.

  9. #9
    Member Sockeye Scott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Kenai, AK
    Posts
    82

    Default

    How do you propose to restrict angler numbers? That would be quite a challange, if not impossible.

  10. #10
    Member DRIFTER_016's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Yellowknife, NWT
    Posts
    3,318

    Default

    The best way to restrict the #'s being caught is to go single barbless artificial until escapment is made and then allow bait.

  11. #11
    Member AlaskaHippie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Beaver Fork
    Posts
    3,853

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trakn View Post
    Marcus

    I have to disagree with you there would be a big loss of jobs in the area,,,look in the phone book at the number of guides,lodges,and B & B's in the area. The dipnetters aren't staying at lodges nor the flossers. Where talking tourists they don't drive cars to Fred Myers lodge owners pick them up. The cars you see and the full parking lots are not tourists thats Anchorage down here to rape and pillage and not spend one cent because we have a sales tax. Also dipnetters are not tourists, they don't spend money unless they need more ice.

    Have another cup of coffee and think about who spends money here and who doesn't. And how some people make a living.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sockeye Scott View Post
    By the way, I think that a complete shut down to the King fishery would have a very large impact on the local economy. There are a lot of people who come to the mighty Kenai to try their luck at catching a monster king. Just take a look at the river on a Saturday, or any day of the week, and you will see a lot of tourists, out of towners, and locals spending some quality time on the water. When thery get off the water they will probably spend some quality time at stores, bars, restaurants, etc.
    Just to play Devil's Advocate if the King runs continue to flag in the future and EO's become standard, and eventually adopted as new regulations, wouldn't the same perceived economic impact be felt? A short term, 5-6 year closure (throughout South Central -to include the Valley) of all King Salmon Fishing would be more appealing than a long term and continuing death spiral of a once prolific and amazing fish.
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
    "Character is how you treat those who can do nothing for you."

  12. #12
    Member AlaskaHippie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Beaver Fork
    Posts
    3,853

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sockeye Scott View Post
    How do you propose to restrict angler numbers? That would be quite a challange, if not impossible.
    Apply for a King Tag, much like one applies for a Big Game Tag, would be an option.

    Closing it entirely would be another.
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
    "Character is how you treat those who can do nothing for you."

  13. #13
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    11,415

    Default

    I would be more inclined to buy into a closure if there was active stream recovery work in effect. I have seen the changes in upper wasilla creek since the beaver dams were removed. Clear culverts to allow salmon to pass and rip out beaver dams which would drop water temps, open new spawning areas, allow salmon to pass, and reduce pike habitat.

  14. #14

    Default

    Now, I know that this is a horse that has been beaten to death, but is there data that show the harvest numbers of kings by sportfishermen versus commercial boats?
    I have loved the Kenai since I was a boy and my dad took us up there, I feel so lucky to have made it up there the 5 times or so that I have and to have fished the Kenai. Never did catch anything over 45lbs, but still it is an amazing river and an incredible fish. I just struggle to believe that sportfishermen are such a large percentage of the problem, since even 10 years ago 4 guys in a boat for 12 hours were doing good to catch 3 fish. Is there a #'s report for kings that compares commercial netting and sportfishermen?

  15. #15
    Member AlaskaHippie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Beaver Fork
    Posts
    3,853

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    I would be more inclined to buy into a closure if there was active stream recovery work in effect. I have seen the changes in upper wasilla creek since the beaver dams were removed. Clear culverts to allow salmon to pass and rip out beaver dams which would drop water temps, open new spawning areas, allow salmon to pass, and reduce pike habitat.
    Agreed. Look at Moose and Kroto Creek(s). The beaver dams and influx of pike in the headwaters and spawning grounds of the Deshka King Runs needs to be addressed and remedied. Mayhaps a closure that encouraged those wishing to see the Runs return to proactively assist in habitat restoration would be a win/win....
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
    "Character is how you treat those who can do nothing for you."

  16. #16
    Member AlaskaHippie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Beaver Fork
    Posts
    3,853

    Thumbs down It gets old

    Quote Originally Posted by Utarded View Post
    Now, I know that this is a horse that has been beaten to death, but is there data that show the harvest numbers of kings by sportfishermen versus commercial boats?
    I have loved the Kenai since I was a boy and my dad took us up there, I feel so lucky to have made it up there the 5 times or so that I have and to have fished the Kenai. Never did catch anything over 45lbs, but still it is an amazing river and an incredible fish. I just struggle to believe that sportfishermen are such a large percentage of the problem, since even 10 years ago 4 guys in a boat for 12 hours were doing good to catch 3 fish. Is there a #'s report for kings that compares commercial netting and sportfishermen?
    You know, with all the info out there concerning the trawler bycatch, overharvesting in river of genetic stock, habitat destruction, invasive species, etc. It really gets old to see the repeated jabs aimed at the gillnet fleet.

    Gillnet, by definition and implementation is an extremely effective and selective gear type. Mesh size dictates fish size and the mesh restrictions in place for the fishery ensures that Kings aren't a targeted species.

    The drift and setnet fishery has existed in Cook Inlet for an exceedingly longer time than Sport Fishing. Prior to the influx of rods and reels and beer cans on wheels, the size in numbers and individual fish was both large, and stable. Hell the World Record King Salmon was taken from the Kenai at the height of the prices for commercial caught salmon, which saw dern near every permit being fished.

    The weak grasp some Sporties have of the influences and pressures placed on these fish is simply astounding.

    This ain't Salem, it ain't the 18th century, and commercial fisherman aren't sporting forked tails.
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
    "Character is how you treat those who can do nothing for you."

  17. #17
    New member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Soldotna
    Posts
    5,639

    Thumbs up Yet hittin' on all eight, Hippie . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaHippie View Post
    . . . The weak grasp some Sporties have of the influences and pressures placed on these fish is simply astounding.

    This ain't Salem, it ain't the 18th century, and commercial fisherman aren't sporting forked tails.
    BINGO! Luv it . . .

  18. #18
    Member AlaskaHippie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Beaver Fork
    Posts
    3,853

    Lightbulb Beelzebub and I have some ice skating to do....

    Whoa.

    Wait a second.

    Marcus and I are on the same page on an issue.

    It MUST be the Rapture.

    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
    "Character is how you treat those who can do nothing for you."

  19. #19
    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Aberdeen WA
    Posts
    4,516

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaHippie View Post
    Gillnets, by definition and implementation is an extremely effective and selective gear type. Mesh size dictates fish size and the mesh restrictions in place for the fishery ensures that Kings aren't a targeted species.
    So selective it accounts for at least half the harvest of LR kings. YGTBFK, right?
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
    http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/uploads/UP12710.jpg
    The KeenEye MD

  20. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Utarded View Post
    Is there a #'s report for kings that compares commercial netting and sportfishermen?
    Table 146-1, page 131.
    http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/re...2A.2010.05.pdf

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •