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Thread: XDM and Sights?

  1. #1

    Default XDM and Sights?

    I bought a new XDM 40 and have put about 1500 rounds through it over the last month. I really like the gun but the sights? Well, I started looking for some other sights and came up with a couple that I am seriously considering. Before I buy I thought I would ask some of you what sights you really like and shoot well for you.

    The only firm requirement is that they need to be adjustable!

  2. #2
    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    They are the toughest sights on the planet to remove. Dawson makes a set of adjustable sights for the XDM and they work well. The killer is that you will need a $120 tool just to remove the sights. I have removed them by other means, but I wouldn't recommend it.
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    I had a gunsmith change mine out since they are indeed a pain in the butt costs me 30 bucks to have them swapped out.. It was well worth not having to deal with the headache,

  4. #4

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    Thanks, I read that they were a bugger to get off. I took a look at the setup and it does look like you need a special tool to get into the set screw. I know nothing I have seen at Lowe's would work. As far as the sights I am a little disappointed I didn't get more replies but I appreciate the lead on the Dawson sights and I'll try and dig up some reviews.

    The problem I am having with the stock sights is that I shoot consistently a little high and a little to the right. At 7 yards I can put them all in a 4" or so size area. It is probably my grip and stance but I had two guys watch me and they couldn't really find anything glaringly wrong. So, I am thinking that if I am consistent in my groups, my grip and stance looks ok then an adjustable sight should fix the issue.

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    Actually a lot of people have issues with them shooting off a little, which isn't acceptable but I always switch my sights to Tru Glo TFO's and they my XD's and XDM shoot straight. I wool;d go over to XDTalk.com they have a lot of really good info there. Also a great place to get XDm accessories is pistolgear.com. GL

    Jack

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    You did not mention laser sights but possibly you should consider Crimson Trace or LaserMax. Both of those can be installed in a few minutes the first time and a few seconds thereafter.
    NRA Life Member since 1974

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    I'm always skeptical about new pistols sights "being off". It is true that some sights are in fact off for some shooters for many different reasons. If you shoot another pistol well, meaning about two inches at at least 15 yards or more, then you may have need of sight adjustment. If they just shoot other than point of aim, why cant you adjust the sights, granted special tools required. Almost all of the complaints about "my sights are off" had to do with shooter in some way. A different trigger than you're used to will certainly change point of impact. As will different grip ergonomics. If you are an accomplished pistol shot with other guns and can shoot small groups with other pistols, maybe you do need adjustment.

    I've been on this soap box before but will once again reiterate you must focus on the front sight to maintain sight alignment to shoot guns tight. And yes I am well aware of the grip, stance, sign of the moon, etc, but sight alignment throughout the shot is the only thing that can assure a good shot. No offense but, four inches at 7 yards can be done without sights. I have ten and twelve year old students that are not satisfied with that group at 15 yards, for good reason.

    If I may be so bold, as a good shooting coach should be, shoot a group then come talk to me. And please don't embarrass ourself by saying a "combat pistol" won't/can't/doesn't need to shoot 2" at 15 yards. I have poor eyes and am old an weak and I do shoot one inch groups everyday!!

    I have only shot a few of the XD's and S&W M&P's, they are different yet similar and I have had no trouble shooting less than 2" groups at 15 yards. We cannot adjust or replace sights to repair accuracy that is hardly 14 inches at 25 yards.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    I agree totally Murphy.My XDM will pound 2" groups off the bags on the bench all day long at 20 yards, right where it is supposed to (after I adjusted the rear sight a tiny bit) . However, offhand I shoot quite a bit to the left, but in a tight group. That means that it's me, not the gun. I don't have this issue with any other semi-auto I own, but they are all single action 1911's. After a year I am still having trigger use/grip issues that I can't seem to get over. My biggest beef is that while the sights are drift adjustable it is a BUGGER to do so. Having to spend $120 to just adjust the rear sight a tiny bit is rediculous. My XDM will shoot a 1" ragged hole for 16 rounds at 7 yards slowfire offhand.
    Bunny Boots and Bearcats: Utility Sled Mayhem

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    Before you drop $$ on sights, drop the $$ on more ammo and find a good coach. Sounds patronizing, but is not meant to be. I have been shooting for too many years to mention and (like Murphy) also instruct and coach a lot (kids to old men/women!!).
    Irrespective of the type of sights, if you are only achieving 4" at 21' then it is you, not the gun. I can (and do) achieve better than that without using the sights at that range.
    The biggest problem I have seen with people using 'combat' 3 dot sights is the alighnment of the 3 dots and ensuring front sight is central to rear (same amount of gap each side of front sight). Then it is all down to trigger and breath control. Go out and get some sight paint (green and red) for about $10 or nail polish and highlight the 3 dots a bit better. Then spend some really focused time on the range, prefereably with an instructor/coach. FRONT SIGHT, FRONT SIGHT, FRONT SIGHT!!!
    I have seen so many people throw $$ into sights and gizmos with no improvement, where a couple of boes of ammo and a good coach would have solved all the issues.
    As for lasers, don't even go there!! Great training aid, but not an act of war IMHO. Put a target in a field, I garuntee I will shoot it first (multiple times!!) with irons before most people have even worked out where that darned red (or green) dot is pointing!!

  10. #10

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    I have to laugh since I was pretty proud of a 4" group free hand at 7 yards but apparently I have some work to do from what I am reading. I never really thought about a coach because I don't shoot competitively but I guess it wouldn't hurt. I took some lessons a long time ago but never invested the time to get to what I would consider a competitive level. I have a feeling it is part me and part the sights but after reading the posts I probably shouldn't have said that..

    So, were would be a good place to get a couple of lessons? Remember, I am not interested in the Olympic's but I am interested in being more consistent in my form and placement which go together.

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    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    4" group rapid fire? Slow fire? From the holster? 4" is more than enough in a defensive pistol situation. There are tons of good instructors out there and they all teach many styles. Personally I want an instructor to teach me the down and dirty art of self defense with a handgun, I could care less about IDPA times or scores.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKDoug View Post
    4" group rapid fire? Slow fire? From the holster? 4" is more than enough in a defensive pistol situation. There are tons of good instructors out there and they all teach many styles. Personally I want an instructor to teach me the down and dirty art of self defense with a handgun, I could care less about IDPA times or scores.
    I disagree. When in training you must achieve better results than needed in a combative situation. High speed grouped shots, two shot keyholes, make effective stoppers. I have found many shooters good enough at the range but fail miserably when stressed in simulated combat training. And in the real field of self defense, they often fall apart behind the trigger. So I advocate one inch groups at less than 15 yards, two inch on out. And this is all from the holster, double taps up and down, no Mozambique anymore.

    I'm not among the best but I point shoot without sights, 7 to 10 yards, using the Applegate technique and keep shots in less than a four inch group. This is all very fast and shot in double taps, from the holster, in and out, magazine after magazine, for 100 rounds. It makes about a four inch hole in the cardboard, never see the sights.

    But I do believe the original poster was attempting to determine zero and sight effectiveness and it seems he's incapable of achieving a group to even determine zero. No offense, a lot of pistol shooters are not up to the task. As an old instructor friend of mine is fond of saying, "an open group will only stop a cardboard bad guy."

    Shoot 'em all in the middle.
    Mike
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  13. #13

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    Alrighty guys, I appreciate the feedback. I think...

  14. #14

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    I bought new sights for my Springfield at Advantage Tactical Sights:

    http://www.advantagetactical.com/

    Easy to acquire on target. It made it easier for "older" eyes to find the target and to stay on target while shooting. I did OK with the factory sights but I really enjoy the "triangle" sights, my Styer came with the triangle sights and it is a breeze to point and shoot. Hope this helps.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by mfletcher View Post
    I bought new sights for my Springfield at Advantage Tactical Sights:

    http://www.advantagetactical.com/

    Easy to acquire on target. It made it easier for "older" eyes to find the target and to stay on target while shooting. I did OK with the factory sights but I really enjoy the "triangle" sights, my Styer came with the triangle sights and it is a breeze to point and shoot. Hope this helps.
    Thanks for the good info.. I do like the idea of a triangle sight and the look like they would be easier to pickup. I'll take a deeper peek at them for sure..

    Who installed them for you?

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by dvarmit View Post
    Who installed them for you?
    The install was quite simple. All you had to do was to remove the set screw (Its been a while and I think they had a set screw) and then knock the old sights out using a punch. Then punch the other sights into the dovetail slot. All you have to do is to center the sights and you're good to go.

  17. #17
    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    Change out that trigger on the XDm. My issues outlined above three weeks ago have been totally cured by the installation of a Powder River trigger kit. What was once the most frustrating pistol I have owned has now become a favorite.
    Bunny Boots and Bearcats: Utility Sled Mayhem

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    Ok, I have a couple of Xdms. One in .40, and one in 9mm. My .40 shoots fairly accurately, while my 9mm shoots very high right from my point of aim. I have to aim very low left to get bull's eye at ten yards. So needless to say, my sights need adjusting. I didn't realize that XD/XDM sights were going to be any different than any other gun to adjust or remove, until after I started looking up different sight options. I saw videos of people trying to knock the sights out, just beating the heck out of their guns. I thought it looked way too out of control for my tastes. I did see a couple sight removal tools slide out the sights with more care, but have read poor reviews on the same tools. Then I remembered reading that those sights are installed with a Hydraulic press. Bingo! Why aren't gun smiths or anybody I know of using a hydraulic press to push out the sights? A quick look up on the internet, and I can see 20 ton hydraulic presses going for around $200, pretty close to the cost of a decent sight removal tool. Seems like a much better investment to me, and a hydraulic press should push anything out, and be way more versatile of a tool. Just wanted to put the word out, in case someone was interested. No good gun smith should be with out a hydraulic press anyway.

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    3 dot sights as on the XDm are 'Combat sights' and not intended for pinpoint accuracy (stand-by for flaming!!). However they are fairly accurate. By 'Combat Sights' I mean that at Combat Ranges (21 feet and less) you should acquire a different sight picture. The Three dots should be aligned and the FRONT DOT on the center of the target and NOT the top of the front sight on center. This should lower your group a good amount. There are arguements both for and against this, but I have been shooting XDs and XDms for a number of years and this method of sight picture works without dropping the $$ ($250 plus with install) on new sights. This is also a much more intuitive and quick sight picture for 'Combat Effectiverness'. When extending range 40ft and out then return to a standard sight picture.
    I am not stating any of this from assumption or internet rumor, but actual experience. Just add a bit of hi vis sight paint to yhe 3 dots, use the 2 sight pictures detailed above and you will be happy.

  20. #20
    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    My XDM .40 shoots right to the top of the front sight. If I line up the top of the front sight on the bull that is where I hit. I blacked out my dots...hate 'em.
    Bunny Boots and Bearcats: Utility Sled Mayhem

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