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Thread: Toilet paper still counts as litter.

  1. #1
    Member EagleRiverDee's Avatar
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    Angry Toilet paper still counts as litter.



    Yesterday we rode the Purches Creek trail in Hatchers Pass. It's beautiful country back there, but my enjoyment was somewhat marred by the constant piles of toilet paper left ON the trail and just to the side of the trail for the length of it, plus the garbage left at previous camp sites.

    I don't often use this forum to get on a stump...but c'mon. Toilet paper is litter, too. Either bury it, or carry a little trash bag with you to toss it into and pack it out. Please. Leaving it laying around is just gross, and doesn't reflect well on ATV riders. There is simply no excuse to not do one of the above options.

    This post is only directed at people who seem to think TP is invisible and that leaving it lying all over the place is okay. It's not directed at the folks who behave responsibly and with respect to other people and to the land.

    And yes, I'm sure it was ATV riders. The TP was fresh and fluffy and we had passed a massive group coming out of the area as we were going in. There were no signs of horses, cyclists or hikers in the area.

    Okay, stepping off stump now.

    Dee
    "If snowmachiners would adopt the habits of riding one at a time and not parking at the base of avalanche prone slopes, the number of fatalities would likely be whittled by at least a third, if not by half." ~ Jill Fredston, in the book Snowstruck, In The Grip Of Avalanches.

  2. #2
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    A good biodegradable TP goes a long way toward keeping the trails more aesthetically pleasing. Honestly if we would actually get some real rain most of it would not be noticeable. I am a fan of using catholes in highly traveled areas or packing it off of glaciers but for the most part TP is about as temporary as litter gets.

  3. #3

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    Stuff like this really chaps me wrong and gives me a case of the red ass. There are so many options out there to TP. It is high past time, that ATV'er's start employing some common sense about how they recreate and deficate. Perhaps this thread will spark some debate and offer some alternatives.
    I know in Russia, they carry along a hemp rope and wash it out from time to time in the creek or mudhole. In Turkey they just the hand they don't eat with. Sure seems to me that here in Alaska, the Devils Club leaves would serve two purposes...Would take off all the new and part of the old.
    Burying the TP is NOT the answer...predators of all sorts like to dig up cat holes and WILL. Perhaps a Potato Gun type of contraption could be mounted on the ATV...use it like a cannon, as they do on Mt. Mckinley climbers rest stops...They just charge it with a bit of propane, load it up by scooping the poop into the muzzle and KABOOM...ALL GONE!!!
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    Moderator AKmud's Avatar
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    Also, what is wrong with getting away from the trail (say 100yds??) to do your business?? For some strange reason my dog found it necessary to decorate himself with samplings from a pile of human poo he found right next to the trail along upper Willow creek last weekend. Solved with a cold water dunking and scrub (he didn't appreciate it BTW) but still should have never been that close to a well worn trail.

    As far as paper goes, I carry a lighter with me and torch it. The unused part burns up quickly and the used part is not any more visible than any of the rest of it.
    AKmud
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    Member EagleRiverDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    A good biodegradable TP goes a long way toward keeping the trails more aesthetically pleasing. Honestly if we would actually get some real rain most of it would not be noticeable. I am a fan of using catholes in highly traveled areas or packing it off of glaciers but for the most part TP is about as temporary as litter gets.
    That may be true if people are using the biodegradable RV toilet paper but most people don't. The TP we use in our homes holds up for quite a while. Regardless, it's unsightly, unsanitary and unnecessary for people to leave it just laying in the trail or just to the side of the trail. We all go out to enjoy the wilderness. Garbage isn't part of that. IMO.
    "If snowmachiners would adopt the habits of riding one at a time and not parking at the base of avalanche prone slopes, the number of fatalities would likely be whittled by at least a third, if not by half." ~ Jill Fredston, in the book Snowstruck, In The Grip Of Avalanches.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKmud View Post
    Also, what is wrong with getting away from the trail (say 100yds??) to do your business??
    Are you kidding me??? A hundred yards??? Man, when the urge hits, I consider myself lucky just to get off the trail and get my pants down.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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    Member ironartist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    Are you kidding me??? A hundred yards??? Man, when the urge hits, I consider myself lucky just to get off the trail and get my pants down.
    res was gonna send ya some more points but I can't, but you are correct 100 yards by that time I'd have to go home to change my pants,lol, it's just lazy people that it doesn't bother, dig the cathole then add some solid material sticks and such the average animals can't unearth the hidden treasures
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    Member dkwarthog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    Are you kidding me??? A hundred yards??? Man, when the urge hits, I consider myself lucky just to get off the trail and get my pants down.
    Huh...I always knew you were full of it !!

    Looks like Res AND IA need a diet change or a seminar in foresight!!!

    Chalk me up in the "you are a lazy arzhole if you leave TP within 100 yards of a trail".

    Bury it, or make sure it is far enough from a trail to keep dogs from getting into it. Under alot of conditions you can burn the paper off..... just dont do it when its dry and windy!!

  9. #9
    Member dkwarthog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkwarthog View Post
    Huh...I always knew you were full of it !!

    Looks like Res AND IA need a diet change or a seminar in foresight!!!

    Chalk me up in the "you are a lazy arzhole if you leave TP within 100 yards of a trail".

    Bury it, or make sure it is far enough from a trail to keep dogs from getting into it. Under alot of conditions you can burn the paper off..... just dont do it when its dry and windy!!


    Sorry Res, forgot to add the smiley...

  10. #10
    Member cusackla's Avatar
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    [Chalk me up in the "you are a lazy arzhole if you leave TP within 100 yards of a trail".

    Bury it, or make sure it is far enough from a trail to keep dogs from getting into it. Under alot of conditions you can burn the paper off..... just dont do it when its dry and windy!![/QUOTE]

    Chalk me up too! I just took a trip into the Little O and it was a same to see how sloppy people have become.
    Louis

  11. #11
    Thewolfwatching
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    ROFL.. you gotta go you gotta go.. Now people are arguing where you need to take a chit.. SERIOUS.. are you people outa your minds? Btw most TP is biodegradable and most chit is good for the environment.. PLEASE step off the trail but a couple yards is satisfactory umm.. You know kick down a hole if you need to and bury it but.. hahaha…



    Quote Originally Posted by ironartist View Post
    res was gonna send ya some more points but I can't, but you are correct 100 yards by that time I'd have to go home to change my pants,lol, it's just lazy people that it doesn't bother, dig the cathole then add some solid material sticks and such the average animals can't unearth the hidden treasures

  12. #12

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    A scientific method for determining which TP to use is in order.
    I suggest putting a wad of the TP you normally use into a clear water bottle and fill it the rest of the way with water. Shake it up and see if it shreds itself into tiny bits...or ...stays a wad and comgogumalates into a mass. Keep testing until you find a suitable brand...hint, usually the cheapest brands are best. This tip was provided to me via the guy that pumps my septic tank...Believe me, he knows his chit!
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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  13. #13
    Member Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKmud View Post
    Also, what is wrong with getting away from the trail (say 100yds??) to do your business?? For some strange reason my dog found it necessary to decorate himself with samplings from a pile of human poo he found right next to the trail along upper Willow creek last weekend. Solved with a cold water dunking and scrub (he didn't appreciate it BTW) but still should have never been that close to a well worn trail.

    As far as paper goes, I carry a lighter with me and torch it. The unused part burns up quickly and the used part is not any more visible than any of the rest of it.
    Ah, this post brings a fond memory to my mind. Anyways, was out duck hunting one year on the flats with a buddy and took a deuce earlier that morning not too far from camp, but not out in the open, either. Later on, this one dude shows up with his boat and him and his golden retreiver jump out and we commence with conversation. He talked about how good his dog was, yadda, yadda, until the guy started calling for his dog and was wondering why it was so pre-occupied over by the brush. Needless to say, that golden retreiver got a good breakfast that morning.

  14. #14

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    We camped at Hatcher Pass over the 4th weekend. We were there Thursday eve till Tuesday eve. Watching the people and checking out the camp spots, people that were there are slobs. Garbage everywhere, bottles, toilet paper literally everywhere, green trees cut down and left. Fullsize trees with 4 ft swaths of axe marks on them. Fireworks remains all over the gravel pit road, It makes me sad. My family has been camping there all my life. It's really time for more roads in Ak. Sad thing is I see it all over. Sutton, King River, Eureka, Petersville, you name it. Not saying all are slobs, just the majority.

  15. #15
    Member EagleRiverDee's Avatar
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    I gotta admit I'm wondering how these fellows who can "barely make it off their machine and to the side of the trail" function in society...my gosh, what do they do when the urge hits in a grocery store or when they are driving home from work? Sounds like an excuse to me.

    Regardless, my original point was to have some consideration for other people and not just leave your piles and your TP in plain view of the trail where people are riding to enjoy the views and mother nature. Ideally it should be buried, burned or packed out. But yeah, for those who think it's way too hard to do any of that, it would be nice if you stepped off the trail and did your business where the results will be out of sight. Honestly I'm surprised that people would argue about it, but I guess that just shows how far things have deteriorated in what has become an entitlement mentality in our society.

    Again, none of this was directed at those who are considerate in how they handle nature's call when out riding.
    "If snowmachiners would adopt the habits of riding one at a time and not parking at the base of avalanche prone slopes, the number of fatalities would likely be whittled by at least a third, if not by half." ~ Jill Fredston, in the book Snowstruck, In The Grip Of Avalanches.

  16. #16
    Member fishingyoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKmud View Post
    Also, what is wrong with getting away from the trail (say 100yds??) to do your business?? For some strange reason my dog found it necessary to decorate himself with samplings from a pile of human poo he found right next to the trail along upper Willow creek last weekend. Solved with a cold water dunking and scrub (he didn't appreciate it BTW) but still should have never been that close to a well worn trail. As far as paper goes, I carry a lighter with me and torch it. The unused part burns up quickly and the used part is not any more visible than any of the rest of it.
    The people probablly were too scared of bears to make it that far off the trail.

  17. #17
    Thewolfwatching
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    Res, now hon, they all want that comfy stuff.. you know the fluffy feel good stuff that is all cushioned for their….. –clearing throat… what do they call it? Three ply or something lol..

    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    A scientific method for determining which TP to use is in order.
    I suggest putting a wad of the TP you normally use into a clear water bottle and fill it the rest of the way with water. Shake it up and see if it shreds itself into tiny bits...or ...stays a wad and comgogumalates into a mass. Keep testing until you find a suitable brand...hint, usually the cheapest brands are best. This tip was provided to me via the guy that pumps my septic tank...Believe me, he knows his chit!

  18. #18
    Thewolfwatching
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    The same people who complain about horse chit on a trail.. yep.. never mind the moose chit or the bear chit.. OH lord help us, the dog chit the trail blazers leave in their wake!!! Eagle River trail complainers.. gotta love em!! Hey, why don’t we incorporate a law that requires you all to clean up your dog chit on the trail too.. you all so stuffed on granola probably couldn’t even grasp a BM LOL!!

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleRiverDee View Post
    I gotta admit I'm wondering how these fellows who can "barely make it off their machine and to the side of the trail" function in society...my gosh, what do they do when the urge hits in a grocery store or when they are driving home from work? Sounds like an excuse to me.

    Regardless, my original point was to have some consideration for other people and not just leave your piles and your TP in plain view of the trail where people are riding to enjoy the views and mother nature. Ideally it should be buried, burned or packed out. But yeah, for those who think it's way too hard to do any of that, it would be nice if you stepped off the trail and did your business where the results will be out of sight. Honestly I'm surprised that people would argue about it, but I guess that just shows how far things have deteriorated in what has become an entitlement mentality in our society.

    Again, none of this was directed at those who are considerate in how they handle nature's call when out riding.

  19. #19
    Thewolfwatching
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    Idiots..... here's your plane ticket..

  20. #20
    Thewolfwatching
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    and even if they were? what if they had good reason? fishingyoda lol - ever had a griz check out your camp? I'm thinking NOT.. join the ER crowd of stupid is as stupid does..perhaps you will leave a little less bird seed around and save us all some grief...
    Quote Originally Posted by fishingyoda View Post
    The people probablly were too scared of bears to make it that far off the trail.

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