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Thread: Can a person take a bow hunter hunting and not be hunting?

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    Default Can a person take a bow hunter hunting and not be hunting?

    I hunt with a rifle and I was thinking about taking a bow hunter in to an area to hunt moose BEFORE Aug 20 when the rifle season starts. I do not see how it can be done unless I stayed in camp, anything I did out side of camp would be hunting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rutting Moose View Post
    I hunt with a rifle and I was thinking about taking a bow hunter in to an area to hunt moose BEFORE Aug 20 when the rifle season starts. I do not see how it can be done unless I stayed in camp, anything I did out side of camp would be hunting.
    I don't see what the problem is. You haven't done anything wrong unless you take anything with something other than a bow. People go with hunters all the time, but as long as they are not the ones shooting, it isn't a problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rutting Moose View Post
    I hunt with a rifle and I was thinking about taking a bow hunter in to an area to hunt moose BEFORE Aug 20 when the rifle season starts. I do not see how it can be done unless I stayed in camp, anything I did out side of camp would be hunting.
    Something to consider is if the season for other critters including bears. Example: Are bears legal in the unit you plan to hunt? If so, get the proper tags (if required), and go into the field with your friend. He hunts his tags and you hunt yours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rutting Moose View Post
    anything I did out side of camp would be hunting.
    This is untrue.

    Season or tags or whatever just doesn't matter, this is Alaska, and as a free citizen, who is not disbarred from possessing a firearm, are free to carry any gun you like while walking in the bush. Unlike other states, it is not unlawful in Alaska to walk around the bush with a hunting rifle. If questioned by a trooper, SIMPLY STATE THE TRUTH. "I am WALKING with my friend who is hunting". If you answer with "I'm hunting" well then the door is open and you had better produce a harvest ticket or tag for an animal in season for the weapon you are using.

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    I should have added the area is heavy brush and it would be extremely hard for him to get an animal unless I was calling. If Iím not mistaken we are both hunting even though I would not be taking the animal. Does that help explain my problem?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rutting Moose View Post
    I should have added the area is heavy brush and it would be extremely hard for him to get an animal unless I was calling. If Iím not mistaken we are both hunting even though I would not be taking the animal. Does that help explain my problem?
    In my view, it doesn't change the situation. Nothing says you can't hunt, just that you can't take an animal with a rifle. If you have a hunting license, there is nothing saying you can't hunt, you just aren't allowed to use a weapon that is not legal to take the animal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rutting Moose View Post
    I should have added the area is heavy brush and it would be extremely hard for him to get an animal unless I was calling. If Iím not mistaken we are both hunting even though I would not be taking the animal. Does that help explain my problem?
    I think you should just go hunting and not worry about it, as well as increase your text size.

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    Which hunt is this for? If for a hunt on Elmendorf, Ft. Rich or similar ... the landowner may have more stringent requirements.

    For other hunts (Say Unit 16) there are likely seasons for other game ... hence why not carry and hunt for legal animals?

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    if your hunitng 14 a or b the season is Aug 25 just in case that is the unit your hunitng.
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    You can do anything you want as long as you do not shoot at an animal that is not legal to harvest and you are not being paid to help.
    "I'd rather be fishing!"

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    This is definately a question for the local F&W trooper that may issue you a ticket.

    It is my opinion that you can legally call for another person anytime you want if you are not getting paid. You can also legally carry a firearm anytime you want in Alaska. Therefore, I can see no problem calling for a friend during archery season while you carry a firearm for self defense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKDoug View Post
    This is definately a question for the local F&W trooper that may issue you a ticket.

    It is my opinion that you can legally call for another person anytime you want if you are not getting paid. You can also legally carry a firearm anytime you want in Alaska. Therefore, I can see no problem calling for a friend during archery season while you carry a firearm for self defense.
    However, if you call something in that decides it wants to make you "squeal like a pig", and you kill it in "self defense", then I would think your DLP defense is not going to hold water, since you called in said perpetrator in the first place. (And I wouldn't count on that dam being built any time soon to hide the evidence).
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    As far as asking the local Trooper I just donít thing that is a good idea, because what ever he said has no legal standing.

    Several good pointís guys and I agree with most of them. The problem that I see with being there for self defense or just watching is you are helping him hunt and the legal definition of ďhuntingĒ found under ďTAKEĒ page 29 of the hunting regulations.

    ďTake: taking, pursuing, hunting, fishing, trapping, or in any manner disturbing, capturing, or killing or attempting to take, pursue, hunt etc.Ē

    I know it a find point but guys have been hanged on less when it comes to hunting and fishing reg.


    Anyway it does not matter now, because the bow hunter I was planning on helping did not bother answering my questions.

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    I disagree with Rutting Moose. If you ask a trooper, and that trooper gives you an answer- note the time, place, and his name (badge number if possible), and his response. I also agree with Rutting Moose- if you are out calling moose- you are hunting. Wither or not you harvest an animal. You are out there with the soul purpose of harvesting an animal- even if your buddy shoots that said animal.

    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by akgun&ammo View Post
    I disagree with Rutting Moose. If you ask a trooper, and that trooper gives you an answer- note the time, place, and his name (badge number if possible), and his response. I also agree with Rutting Moose- if you are out calling moose- you are hunting. Wither or not you harvest an animal. You are out there with the soul purpose of harvesting an animal- even if your buddy shoots that said animal.

    Chris
    I think the issue only comes when an animal is killed. I don't think that the act of hunting is necessarily illegal even when the season is closed, it only becomes an issue if you kill an animal (there is still the vague issue of "harassing" game and whether calling/hunting/etc... counts, but I don't want to get into that angle now). As long as the animal is killed by the legal means (bow and arrow in this case), then there is still nothing illegal about the action.

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    They call it hunting, not shooting. The act of pursueing a game animal with the intent to harvest it. in my humble opinion anyway. My girlfriend thinks that sometimes when I go "hunting" I'm just out to camp and drink beer..

    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by akgun&ammo View Post
    They call it hunting, not shooting. The act of pursueing a game animal with the intent to harvest it. in my humble opinion anyway. My girlfriend thinks that sometimes when I go "hunting" I'm just out to camp and drink beer..

    Chris
    I would think enforcement of a strict interpretation of this would result in a large backlash from the hunting community as the situation probably applies to about every hunting party. I look forward to hearing about a case where a person goes hunting with his family, (the wife drew a buffalo tag or other hunter specific tag) and the law enforcement community tickets (aka fines) and tells the others in the party that they can not participate in the hunt because they would be pursuing (re: "definition of take") that species and that activity is illegal.

    With respect to your conclusion, I usually go along to take photos.

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    I don't see this as any different than taking a friend or family member out to fill their draw tag. If this were illegal then the troopers would be ticketing nearly every hunting party out doing the tier 1 Nelchina herd hunt.

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    I just briefly spoke with the F&G Statewide Enforcement Specialist... .

    Per our brief discussion, the legal line is crossed when the non legal person helps the legal hunter in pursuing the game. If I was a gun bearer in the OPís post, the crossing of the legal line seems to occur if I were to engage in activities like herding the moose to the legal hunter of that moose, calling the moose in, or placing scents to attract the moose. Simply walking in the forest with the other hunter may not be considered pursuing. Whereas, pointing to a moose in the bushes for the buddy to shoot may be considered pursuing the game.

    I do not encourage anyone to use report of the discussions for their hunt. I would encourage them to contact the F&G Statewide Enforcement Specialist on their own so they may have their specific questions/concerns addressed.

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    There are two aswers to this question: Technical - No you may not and, Yes - You may. I am biting my lip because answer one is for the administaive F&G "help" and answer two is beded in reality/enforcement. AKJeff is right ... pretty much comes down to "intent". 99.9% of the time - you absolutely can. You can even walk in the woods with a gun outside all legal seasons. You can even point out "game", outside legal seasons, whilst carrying a gun. If for some unfortunate reason, you kill something (or in my opinion - shoot at it, and in some cases don't kill or shoot at but have a close call), you have an obligation to report the incident. I bowhunt and take bowhunters out all the time, during bowhunting seasons and permit only areas ... and never without me carrying a gun (sure I sit in camp some days ... but that's due to bad weather, a nice fire and good coffee). Technically calling translates to "taking" and or "harassment" however if you were to ever get and officer to "enforce" it (i.e. you called without a permit and he/she with a permit shot") you'd been doing a lot of other things wrong. Our CO's are hunters/fishers too and very levelheaded but are stuck with "administrator's rules". The first answer from any administrator is "no" (thereby no action/accountability on their part). The CO's/Troopers want to see you sueceed. I have, do, and will continue to help my bowhunting "buddy". I can give you many precedence, from right here on this forum, of hunters helping hunters.

    Didn't mean for this this to be this long-winded. But there is absolutely no reason you can't help. Did you know: The definition for "take" is the same with a gun, bow, camera, nothing. I am about to step up on the soap box ...

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