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Thread: Fish Creek Counts

  1. #1
    Member TR's Avatar
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    Default Fish Creek Counts

    Counter sould be started today. Probably won't see any numbers posted until Tuesday.

    3 seasons in a row would be sweet.

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    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    FYI, this just might be the last year for fish creek.. No more hatchery fish will be returning anymore since they stopped stocking it so no one knows what the future will hold. SCADA got the trigger knocked down to 50,000 from 70,000 fish and then an opener but no one really knows. I hope we still have a viable run but I'm just holding my breathe.
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Member AlaskaHippie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    FYI, this just might be the last year for fish creek.. No more hatchery fish will be returning anymore since they stopped stocking it so no one knows what the future will hold. SCADA got the trigger knocked down to 50,000 from 70,000 fish and then an opener but no one really knows. I hope we still have a viable run but I'm just holding my breathe.
    If you're hoping for a viable run to continue, wouldn't the prudent move to have been to ask for the "trigger" to be raised, instead of lowered?
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
    "Character is how you treat those who can do nothing for you."

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaHippie View Post
    If you're hoping for a viable run to continue, wouldn't the prudent move to have been to ask for the "trigger" to be raised, instead of lowered?
    Hippie, 1+1 = 3.5, didn't you know that?. Plus, it is 25+10 = 35, 45, 55 or 67.5...

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    Member TR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Counter sould be started today.
    Oops, looking at count history, the weirs aren't usually installed for another week. Back to sleep everyone.

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    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    Talking with fish and Game, it really doesn't matter. No one knows what the problem is with fish creek. That 70,000 number was pulled out of somebody's butt years ago without any scientific rationale backing up that number. In actuality, the Mat-su AC came up with that and the authors didn't even know why they settled on 70,000. I picked their brains on that specifically.
    Why did it stay closed for 10 years and then all of a sudden jump to a large escapement? You would think that after a five year period of no dipping, the numbers would have increased. No one knows about that either. Without stocking, the numbers will probably never get up to even 50,000 anymore. If there was a scientific way to increase those numbers, without hatchery fish, I would be all for it.
    Per fish and Game, since this is probably the last year for dipping, might as well go out with a bang. That is straight from a sportsfish manager. I like dipping as much as the next guy but continuity of the resource comes first. The fact is nobody knows and fish and Game did not object to dropping the kick-off number of 50,000. They didn't think it was a bad idea at all. I try to talk with the managers before I waste my time submitting proposals. This was discussed extensively with the Bio's.
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    Talking with fish and Game, it really doesn't matter. No one knows what the problem is with fish creek.
    Outside of the fact that it is a CREEK, flowing through a major population area? One that is poached regularly when closed, over fished when open; Been the problem for the last 20 years.
    squab (probably of Scandinavian descent; skvabb, meaning "loose, fat flesh") is a young domestic pigeon or its meat

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    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    Squab, you do have a point. It has been rumored for years that Joe Reddington fed his sled dogs by throwing a gillnet across the creek at night. Another person that used to own the lumber yard in Big lake did the same. I actually saw him pulling nets in one morning. That was way before I ever got involved with fish and Game issues so I didn't know any better then. I would call LE today, let me tell you if I saw it happening today.
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Quote Originally Posted by squab View Post
    Outside of the fact that it is a CREEK, flowing through a major population area? One that is poached regularly when closed, over fished when open; Been the problem for the last 20 years.
    True that squab. Samething happens on Meadow Creek. I have seen local teens in the creek catching kings with their hands and throwing them up on the bank and burying them in leaves and grass. When confronted, they denied it of course, but didn't help any of those kings laying in the bushes.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    Squab, you do have a point. It has been rumored for years that Joe Reddington fed his sled dogs by throwing a gillnet across the creek at night. Another person that used to own the lumber yard in Big lake did the same. I actually saw him pulling nets in one morning. That was way before I ever got involved with fish and Game issues so I didn't know any better then. I would call LE today, let me tell you if I saw it happening today.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbitten View Post
    True that squab. Samething happens on Meadow Creek. I have seen local teens in the creek catching kings with their hands and throwing them up on the bank and burying them in leaves and grass. When confronted, they denied it of course, but didn't help any of those kings laying in the bushes.
    Ok, we went from people hauling their dipnet fish to the dump so they could go load up on a fresh batch to people poaching. If you are seeing this activity, why are you not getting AST involved? Posting stuff like this on an internet forum does nothing to stop the behavior. It is no wonder fish stocks across SC are declining, especially the kings and reds. They have to make it past the "commies", the "personal use" and now the poachers to get to spawning grounds. I feel for the fish.

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    Littleman, the point is that "commies" and "Personal users" are regulated, poachers are not. It might not stop those poachers by posting but it is raising awareness. If I knew 20 years ago that a gillnet was illegal to use in fish creek, I would have reported it. As I stated in my last post. Frostbitten states that when confronted, those kids denied it. Sounds like someone got into those kids faces to me.
    Fish creek in many places is only about 10 feet across. A lot of places you can walk across in waders. It is not hard to go undetected and even if they are, most don't stick around for long. Most times LE would be way to late to do anything.
    The homeowners that live on the creek can toss a net out for two hours and be done, late at night. Raising awareness is what is needed. People need to look out for the resource first, personal gain last. Sorry for the hijack guys but I needed to respond. This hits close to home since I live nearby to Fish creek.
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    First off, a very good point by littleman81 that this does nothing to air the problem on the Forum, what is needed is enforcement, or at least some deterrent, and unless the authorities catch the perpetrators red handed, there is nothing they can do unless people step forward and put their actions where their mouths are. In this day of relatively inexpensive, automatic, digital cameras, that can be set to date and time stamp, it should not be that big a deal to just carry one of these little things in your pocket and record the acts you witness for posterity with that all important date and time stamp. I don't know for sure if these are admissible in court, but if I were a perpetrator and knew that someone had me dead to rights in a date and time stamped photo, I would sure think about the consequences, or at a minimum not be doing it again. Someone might want to ask a lawyer about this, but at a minimum, I would think it would sure be a deterrent. If it is not admissible, I sure wouldn't go broadcasting it on the Forum or anywhere else as if the bad guys don't know it can't be used, it would still be a deterrent and let's face it, the law breakers usually aren’t rocket scientists to begin with. HOWVEVER, those photos would have no value unless either the perpetrators, or the authorities knew about them.

    One needs to think twice about confronting a bad guy as there could be consequences right then and there, and even if you turned the photos over to the authorities, I would think at a minimum, you would also have to appear in court to verify that you did take them, but that is the only way things will get done unless the enforcers actually have seen the action, or somehow can corroborate what they have been told and has the cajones to stand up and stick to their guns. It pretty much boils down to either depending on the law to do the job, and higher taxes and fees for them to have the manpower to do it, or responsible people stepping up to the plate and make the bad guys responsible for their actions, by proactive measures. If some action isn't done, things will only get worse and then we will not either have the access, or thius resource will vanish as did the buffalo of the Western Great Plains.

    It does no good to keep harping on people like Joe Remington and others of a bygone era, Joe has been dead for years and it was a very different time back then. Maybe Joe did this back before the Kink area was heavily populated, but I knew Joe and I can pretty well assure you that in the last 20 or 30 years I have serious doubts that he participated in such actions to any great extent as there were just too many people moving in here, where I still live, and someone would have ratted him out. That was a long time ago anyway, and with the abundance of spawned out hatchery fish that mushers used to be able to get from the old Big Lake Hatchery, as well as free heads, etc, from the fish processors, or surplus form the same source that they were glad to get rid of at a very nominal cost, it just wasn’t economically feasible, much less worth taking the chance of getting caught for a large kennel owner. Maybe some of the smaller ones did this, I wouldn't doubt it, maybe some still do, but it just isn't worth it, and I can say that from some experience. Oh, some may say I am full of it, but I have lived here since the mid seventies and either I am blind , as well as deaf, or a lot of the dog musher stories of them devastating the Fish Creek runs just don't hold up to close scrutiny. I have no doubt that some did, and do take advantage, but this sure wasn't a common practice in the time I lived here.

    If anyone wants to contact me personally on this, feel free to PM me, I am usually around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbitten View Post
    Samething happens on Meadow Creek. I have seen local teens in the creek catching kings with their hands
    I've got some really good pictures of my kids with their hands within 2 feet of large kings there. We never came closer to 2 feet though, and if I'd have seen anyone do so I would have taken their picture too. ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Oops, looking at count history, the weirs aren't usually installed for another week. Back to sleep everyone.
    Weeks up...What up???

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    Default Fish Creek: zero

    The weir is in, the number of fish passed is zero.

    http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/sf/FishCo...ADFG=main.home

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    Yep still zippo. If you look at 2009 and 10 counts, it didn't start register until about now any way. Give it a few more.

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