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Thread: History Help Needed

  1. #1
    Member Phil's Avatar
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    Default History Help Needed

    On August 16, 1971 I killed what will likely be my 1 and only Mt. Goat in Alaska. On August 16, 2011 I plan to write a story on this web site commerating the 40 years that have somehow slipped by.

    As I remember the hunt, absolutely nothing was said by anyone about "same day air" or "wanton waste" of meat. I have spent a little time trying to research these 2 topics with no success. Does anyone remember when these 2 laws went into effect? I am positive that the guide requirement came into being many years later but I haven't been able to find the beginnings of these particular laws.

    I also know that it was a totaly different time. Heck, the Alcan highway still had lots of gravel sections and Anchorage was not nearly as large as it is now. Part of our traveling took us to Valdez, and even though it was an additional 6 years before the pipeline was approved by congress, the pipe was already stored there.

    Well, I don't want this to become political - I just would like some help about when "same day air" and "wanton waste" laws went into effect.

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    God I would love to know this info myself. I`m 62 years old and have only gone to Alaska 5 times(once touring,4 times hunting) but I love to hear the history behind ALL the hunting issues. Someone please help out! THANKS!!!!!

  3. #3

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    Regardless...The Statute of Limitations are expired!
    Spill the beans!!!

    Besides that, living out ones remaining days, in prison in Alaska, has to be better than an old folks home in New York!!!
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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    Member Phil's Avatar
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    Default Whoa

    That's horse language & it means stop. I'm hoping for some help in tracking down the start of these 2 laws - and there was a time when neither of them existed. I guess this shows just how ancient I am but I don't live in an "old folks home" and I still hunt. In fact, come the end of September I will be driving to WY for my 20th year of antelope & mule deer hunting.

    Contrary to popular belief (at least in Alaska), upstate NY is beautiful & has more than it's share of public land & waters. In fact, I can keep more king salmon from Lake Ontario than I can from the Kenai - but that's another forum.

    So, does anyone have an answer to my questions? When did "same day air" and "wanton waste" laws start in Alaska?

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    The answer is yes to both the question, I know there was no same day air and wanton waste before 1965.

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    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    I found the wanton waste law and it was enacted in 17 Apr 1997. Started in a few drainage's then went statewide in following years.

    05 Nov 1996 the same day airborne law was passed.

    These dates were found in the voting and BOG records,, other's may know better.

    Look forward to sharing and reliving your hunt with you Sir.

    Steve
    Last edited by stid2677; 06-30-2011 at 20:35.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stid2677 View Post
    I found the wanton waste law and it was enacted in 17 Apr 1997. Started in a few drainage's then went statewide in following years.

    05 Nov 1996 the same day airborne law was passed.

    These dates were found in the voting and BOG records,, other may know better.

    Look forward to sharing and reliving your hunt with you Sir.

    Steve
    That is in line with what I remember... vaguely. I recall them coming into existence around the begining of the Mulchatna caribou herd crash, related or not I am not certain, or recall exactly if that was a catalyst.

  8. #8
    Thewolfwatching
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    Why do you question? Being a non-resident hunter what difference did or does it make to you?
    Commercial hunting is fickle.. If you could simply fly around for that big game animal, shoot and leave what could be gained from the experience besides a dead animal which, in my book, doesn’t have much bragging rights lol it’s the story that gets you there… Same day airborne? Would a ‘hunter’ really care? Ha! I’d think they’d appreciate the challenge of hunting fair chase.. Unless they’re just plain lazy, quick and EASY trophy hunters who care as much for the environment as they do the people who exist within the environment.. BAAhh, strange topic for sure…
    Same day airborne regulation was designed so a person actually has to HUNT..

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil View Post
    On August 16, 1971 I killed what will likely be my 1 and only Mt. Goat in Alaska. On August 16, 2011 I plan to write a story on this web site commerating the 40 years that have somehow slipped by.

    As I remember the hunt, absolutely nothing was said by anyone about "same day air" or "wanton waste" of meat. I have spent a little time trying to research these 2 topics with no success. Does anyone remember when these 2 laws went into effect? I am positive that the guide requirement came into being many years later but I haven't been able to find the beginnings of these particular laws.

    I also know that it was a totaly different time. Heck, the Alcan highway still had lots of gravel sections and Anchorage was not nearly as large as it is now. Part of our traveling took us to Valdez, and even though it was an additional 6 years before the pipeline was approved by congress, the pipe was already stored there.

    Well, I don't want this to become political - I just would like some help about when "same day air" and "wanton waste" laws went into effect.

  9. #9
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    wolfwatching - While I certainly support the current wanton waste and same-day airborne laws, how about we hear the guy's story before we start throwing barbs about what kind of hunter he might be, what he got out of the experience, etc? This isn't the time. As for me, I'd love to hear a story about days gone by and will be anxiously awaiting August 16th.

  10. #10
    Member Phil's Avatar
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    Default Legal Or Not

    A special thanks to Steve (Stid), Brian, alottab, & 338WM. But it is kind of scary when someone who is retired (Stid) - calls you sir.

    To wolfwatching - I have always been somewhat proud of doing things legally and when considering a story for the 40th anniversary of my hunt - I got to thinking that I might have broken a law without knowing it. My thanks to Stid for finding (knowing) when the laws started. Seems like I hunted before those laws were enacted. I actually shot the Mt. Goat on day 5 of a 3-day hunt. Also for the younger set (and I have to check this out) - I believe Mr. Gore (not Al) patented Goretex in 1972. I wore the latest-greatest insulated undies available. COTTON, waffle-weave undies. I was wet every day I hunted.

    If I am alive on August 16, I will write the story. If not, it becomes another Oh Well. At my age, each day is an adventure. Now I have to re-calibrate my 06 so it is ready for my annual Wyoming (all public land - DIY) hunt.

    BTW, I used to post more frequently on the "old" forums and became a member not too long after this site was started. I am old enough that when a game animal walks in front of me - it is steaks, chops, roasts, & burger. In the case of moose - that's a lot of meat.

    Any law has someone who is hurt (so I was told by an Ag & Markets person about firewood). In this case, the law requiring a guide kept me from taking my son back to where I shot my Mt. Goat for an anniversary hunt. Such is life.

    The locals in Petersburg (the town from which I flew) were agast that I should be hunting Mt. Goats in August. To a person, they told me "just wait until October - the snows will drive them much lower and they will be easier to hunt". Unfortunatley, the Board of Education expected me to be in my classroom during October.

    I flew with Viking Air. They are no longer in business but they did a great job for me.

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    I'M pretty sure the original no fly law was enacted in 72 or 73.

  12. #12
    Member Phil's Avatar
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    Default Same Day Airborne Law

    Thanks sh. I thought the law was enacted before 1996 or so. Still makes it nice to know that I hadn't broken any laws in my hunting endeavor.

    To me, legal or not makes a difference. Maybe I shouldn't care, but I do - whether AK, WY, PA, or NY - it does make a difference.

    Both the "wanton waste" and "same day airborne" laws were enacted to slow down trophy hunting by people who could afford to hunt in Alaska for just the trophy alone.

    I did a float hunt on the Mulchatna several years ago (before Ketchum Air went out of business) and we watched the super cubs flying guided hunters to the ridge-tops late in the evening so they could fulfill the letter of the law and still shoot a big caribou bull. Funny how any law gets someone who will find a way around it.

    There is an old saying (I got it from hanging around dirt racetracks). "Money talks, bull***t walks". Too true.

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    Member tboehm's Avatar
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    I'm looking forward to reading your story and please tell the way it happened and the way you like and don't worry about the judgers.
    Semper Fi and God Bless

  14. #14

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    I first hunted Alaska in about '78. Seems that the airborne laws were in effect then. I't been a long time tho. Looking forward to your story, put on your flame suit, tho...you're a braver man than I. Maybe you could "publish" it thru PM's to those who want to hear it and keep it off the main forum so the "ethics police" will leave it alone.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by tboehm View Post
    I'm looking forward to reading your story and please tell the way it happened and the way you like and don't worry about the judgers.
    Exactly!
    Memoirs have always been subject to scrutiny by their readers. Without a written history, there would be no rational basis for today's laws, rules and ethics. Changes to our collective have always been as a direct result of past practices...History 101...Truth is not always Glam...
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

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    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    For what its worth folks- you have to read history with regards to the worldview prevalent during the time it occurred. You simply can't view the past through the perspective of today.

    Many of the stories about hunting endeavors of the past are sometimes shocking to the modern reader but were considered acceptable in days long gone. One only has to read some of O'Connor's most famous stories and you'll find numerous modern game violations that were considered acceptable practice in his time. Many instances of wanton waste- taking a head and backstraps and leaving the rest for the coyotes and ravens- were perfectly legal in his time and not considered unacceptable among trophy hunters. That's not really that long ago when you think about it.

    I'd hate to think of future generations reading my stories of dipnetting and thinking what a law breaking barbarian I was even though I was well within the boundaries of ethical and legal behavior.

    The actions (sometimes abuses) of the past are largely responsible for most of the laws we hunt under today- particularly wanton waste and same day airborne. I'd love to hear Phil's goat story and I hope we can all realize that it was from a time that's gone.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    History 101...Truth is not always Glam...
    It is interesting that people will judge and condemn by todays template, that which was done before they were born.

    O'well that is their loss.....the stories that (we) could be told, but will go to the grave.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thewolfwatching View Post
    Why do you question? Being a non-resident hunter what difference did or does it make to you?
    Commercial hunting is fickle.. If you could simply fly around for that big game animal, shoot and leave what could be gained from the experience besides a dead animal which, in my book, doesn’t have much bragging rights lol it’s the story that gets you there… Same day airborne? Would a ‘hunter’ really care? Ha! I’d think they’d appreciate the challenge of hunting fair chase.. Unless they’re just plain lazy, quick and EASY trophy hunters who care as much for the environment as they do the people who exist within the environment.. BAAhh, strange topic for sure…
    Same day airborne regulation was designed so a person actually has to HUNT..
    Sounds like YOU are the one who's questioning...without really understanding the intent of the OP's post. Sharing past stories is one of the benefits of sites like this, and even more stories would likely be shared, if people didn't fly off the handle judging the OP's intent when they start a thread.

  19. #19
    Member tyrex13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thewolfwatching View Post
    Why do you question? Being a non-resident hunter what difference did or does it make to you?
    Commercial hunting is fickle.. If you could simply fly around for that big game animal, shoot and leave what could be gained from the experience besides a dead animal which, in my book, doesn’t have much bragging rights lol it’s the story that gets you there… Same day airborne? Would a ‘hunter’ really care? Ha! I’d think they’d appreciate the challenge of hunting fair chase.. Unless they’re just plain lazy, quick and EASY trophy hunters who care as much for the environment as they do the people who exist within the environment.. BAAhh, strange topic for sure…
    Same day airborne regulation was designed so a person actually has to HUNT..
    How's the view up there from your high horse?

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by mdhunter View Post
    Sounds like YOU are the one who's questioning...without really understanding the intent of the OP's post. Sharing past stories is one of the benefits of sites like this, and even more stories would likely be shared, if people didn't fly off the handle judging the OP's intent when they start a thread.
    What, in your opinion, was the "intent of the OP's post"?
    I ask this, because....Perhaps I too misjudged the OP's original post, as I came away with the impression that his intent was to ensure possible transgressions not be revealed...as opposed to simply "Sharing past stories". Personally, if I read a story...I would much prefer it, as it happened...even the questionable aspects, as that is usually where good parts are.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

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