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Thread: Newest Knik Arm Crossing

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    Default Newest Knik Arm Crossing

    What do you think about the impacts on natural resources of the KABATA knik arm crossing, if it is built? Not meaning this to be a nature versus civiilization bipolar discussion as so many things seem to head on this forum.


    Do you see the tradeoffs on natural resources on the whole being worthwhile?


    fisheries
    hunting (lg game, waterfowl, sm game in many different areas)
    energy
    timber
    mining
    commerce
    watersheds


    Which changes regarding these resources influence your thoughts on the project and why?

    Concise responses to start please. Just curious what aspects you focus on most regarding a potential new bridge and how it will set the stage for future decades.


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    I'm not much concerned with the environmental impact. It will likely be minimal. However, the cost seems outrageous for the benefits gained. My brother has a little property over there with a cabin on it. His land value will undoubtedly rise, but that's not what he bought/built the place for, so he still ends up loosing. I don't see how this bridge helps anyone but a few large land owners. I say, let them pay for it.

  3. #3

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    If we start funnelling the spread of the population to Goose bay versus continuing up the existing roads I think it would be a positive move. We will lose access to some land as it gets developed but aren't gaining access to areas beyond that (yet) but it should take some development pressure off areas up the Glenn and parks.
    Development is coming anyway, this should act to direct it a bit.
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    I think it will benifit 200/300 people that will work at the new prison that is being built as it would shorten their drive from Anch. by a couple of hours a day. Same for anyone wanting to live on the Knik side and work in Anch. Yes, it will develope a bunch of land for housing but at the next oil boom it's going to develope somewhere. Be nice to have it close to Anch. rather than strung out up the highways.

  5. #5

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    It's remarkable how so many people think in such short-terms. I suppose it's the mind-frame that "if I can't use it" or "it doesn't directly benefit me", it has no value. Such a bridge/causeway will have a life of 75-150 years or more. To imagine that such infrastructure would benefit "200/300 people" without affecting the entire region for the next century is amazing. I remember having to drive to the Valley (or anywhere north, for that matter) on the Old Glenn Hwy between Muldoon and Palmer. As far as I'm concerned, the current Glenn Hwy is a gift from the Oil Gods. I just pray the state can finish the Glenn improvements between King River and Mile 92 before the economy crashes (that is MUCH more important to me than a bridge).

    But a bridge will eventually happen. It's just a matter of time.

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    As a commercial truck driver that hauls north of Wasilla, it would be a godsend to me to have a bridge. I imagine that every trucking company in Anchorage feels the same way. The other advantage is the deep water port and land available on the Mat-Su side. It will break the stranglehold T.O.T.E. and Sealand have on us if there is a place for competition to go to compete against them. Right now, the travel time around the arm stops any other company from having an economical way to compete by usining the Mat-Su port. Put in a bridge and it will happen almost right away.
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    it is a bit funny to me how scared the municipality of anchorage is of the project. http://www.adn.com/2011/07/07/195692...ik-bridge.html Which do you suppose compromises the anchorage port more, the proposed crossing, or the boondoggle of an overhaul the port itself has been subject to?


    a bridge would rapidly shorten the time in which the major economic hub of the state shifts from Anchorage to an Anchorage Mat-Su hybrid, which will eventually be dominated by the mat-su. Based on the geographical and engineering advantages that the mat-su offers I see this as inevitable, but it will take a long time without a bridge.


    boomerang: i don't think people are critical because they see no value in the project. I think they're critical because they percieve the tradeoffs to be negative on the whole. you don't really address that in your post. It's not just that they don't see the short term benefit. It's that the long term benefits do not outweigh the costs (both dollars, and nonquantifiable impacts) in their minds.


    A difficult discussion because many of the "costs" and "benefits" are intangibles not easily expressed in dollar values, while there are also very real dollar values that quickly add up to proportions that are difficult for individual minds to grasp.







    In a related aside, who will join me in lobbying our legislators to move the capitol to the pt mac prison site? Betcha it would speed construction of a bridge, and it might actually spur some use of the ferry before a bridge is completed.

    Seems like a good fit to me.

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    Back in the early 80's I went to some meetings about increasing the length of the N-S runway to accommodate big jets. One of the interesting facts that came out was that the state has land around Pt. Mac set aside to replace ANC some time in the future.
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    The point mackenzie agricultural development (all was state land) had little to do with agriculture. It was all about building infrastructure on the backs of others.

    Kind of like the people making out in a gold rush are rarely the ones digging gold.



    For the port mac area to grow in a smoother, common sense way, not having the bridge is an advantage as the consequences of growth can be planned better. Not saying they will.


    Interesting though, that there's now a privately held water utiility in the area, though that is probably fodder for another whole discussion in itself. The fresh water in the area is pretty much claimed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by andweav View Post
    The point mackenzie agricultural development (all was state land) had little to do with agriculture. It was all about building infrastructure on the backs of others.

    Kind of like the people making out in a gold rush are rarely the ones digging gold.



    For the port mac area to grow in a smoother, common sense way, not having the bridge is an advantage as the consequences of growth can be planned better. Not saying they will.


    Interesting though, that there's now a privately held water utiility in the area, though that is probably fodder for another whole discussion in itself. The fresh water in the area is pretty much claimed.
    There are hundreds of privately owned water systems all over the valley.

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    Doesn't take much imagination to see how much political pull Sealand and TOTE have on the Anchorage political scene. At least the Alaska Railroad isn't so short sighted. They are working toward securing their rights of way to Pt. Mak. A bridge that includes a railroad section would be the ticket for moving stuff north. Totally removing the ARR's use of Whittier for a deep water port and their aqua train.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbitten View Post
    There are hundreds of privately owned water systems all over the valley.

    none so monumental as the farce system "required" for the pt mac prison (owned by a private business that basically convinced the state (feds) to build them a water utility by working with the MSB to intentionally locate the prison on land lacking in water.

    Wasilla and Palmer have public water utilities. There's nothing else substantial in the valley. The Trueblood et al scam dwarfs them by comparison.

    If you are talking about individual homeowner wells you are missing the big picture. How long have you lived in Alaska?

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    Quote Originally Posted by andweav View Post
    none so monumental as the farce system "required" for the pt mac prison (owned by people) who worked with the MSB to intentionally locate the prison on land lacking in water.

    Wasilla and Palmer have public water utilities. There's nothing else substantial in the valley. The Trueblood et al scam dwarfs them by comparison.

    If you are talking about individual homeowner wells you are missing the big picture. How long have you lived in Alaska?
    24 years, what's that got to do with anything?

    There are 70+ different subdivisions in the Mat-Su that are on privately owned water systems/utilities independent of the cities of Palmer and Wasilla. These are not individual homeowner wells. Ever driven around subdivisions such as Settlers Bay, Snowshoe, Sheena May, Gemstone, Meadowbrook, Wilderness Estates etc? How many private wells did you see? Where do you think they get their water?

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    Quote Originally Posted by andweav View Post
    none so monumental as the farce system "required" for the pt mac prison (owned by a private business that basically convinced the state (feds) to build them a water utility by working with the MSB to intentionally locate the prison on land lacking in water.

    Wasilla and Palmer have public water utilities. There's nothing else substantial in the valley. The Trueblood et al scam dwarfs them by comparison.

    If you are talking about individual homeowner wells you are missing the big picture. How long have you lived in Alaska?
    MSB tried putting the prison near the water system near Palmer but residents raised such a stink they moved it to point mac. Don't get me started on the water and sewer territorialism in the valley. The city of Palmer proposed running water and sewer to the new hospital. Their "bid" was half of wasillas when it came time to actually do it. They said " we have to dig two trenches" one for water and one for sewer? Their "bid" was based on putting both in on trench. So back to the legislature they went for more money. Then msb said "hey we've got water and sewer running past bourough land suitable for the prison. City of Palmer said no way. Get your facts straight please.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Music Man View Post
    Back in the early 80's I went to some meetings about increasing the length of the N-S runway to accommodate big jets. One of the interesting facts that came out was that the state has land around Pt. Mac set aside to replace ANC some time in the future.
    The scuttlebutt I heard was Pt. Mac for freight (including fueling stops for international shipping) which would help open up the current airport for increased or simply growing passenger capability. With a rail spur beginning construction soon to the Pt. Mac dock, we're that much closer to it, including the fueling capability.

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    the subdivision wells generally serve individual homes which use low quantities of water. 60 homes is not a large water system.

    Industrial water is an entirely different story.




    A sewage treatment plant for the waste we already produce would have been a better buy than a water and sewer utility for a city that still doesn't exist and was not funded for operation this past legislative session.


    But to expect competence sometimes is too much to ask.

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    Any plant that deals with solid waste would be an improvement over Wasilla's bag of magic beans they bought years ago. Hauling solids to Anchorage for 30 years seems a bit silly.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming-----WOW-----what a ride!
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    Any land development on that side would be devastating to the housing market. Especially to those homeowners in Anchorage, Eagle River, Peters creek. Speneil is building literally houndreds of homes in the Eagle River area off Drift Wood bay. They have flooded the market with sub-par homes priced from 330K through 645K. And guess what there not selling. There is such a surplus of homes it's becoming a epidemic. If they start subdividing neighbor hoods on the other side. It's will kill our housing market. They only people that win are those that own land over there. They stand to make a substantial amount of money. If the state has tons of money burning holes through lawmakers pockets. Then let's start building this natural gas line while Improve our economy. Then are housing market will boom. But what do I know I'm just another disabled veteran. Thanks for your time.

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    Default Who owns Pt. Mac now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Josh_AK View Post
    The only people that win are those that own land over there. They stand to make a substantial amount of money.
    I have heard anecdotal stories (no hard evidence) that a great many of our Anchorage powers-that-be own large tracts of Pt. Mac land in anticipation of a bridge, which of course would inflate the value of their land hugely; plus those type of power-players are exactly the same ones that could best get a bridge built, or possibly pave the Pt. Mac road all the way to the end (oops, that's already happened 2 years ago...... Hmmm.....). ...Talk about a long, new, wide, asphalt "road to nowhere"..... Oh wait, I really meant:

    Does anyone know if this land ownership interest I've heard about is really true?

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    You can easily see the landowners by going to the Mat-Su Borough's Tax parcel viewer section. It takes a bit of learning, but you can figure it all out with enough time.

    As a resident of that area that is the rest of Alaska...I could care less if it craters land prices in Anchorage and Eagle River if it benefits the rest of Alaska. Afterall, the Mat-Su got repeatedly hosed by falsely inflated land prices when the state failed to move the capital.
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