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Thread: Youth hunting rifles?

  1. #1

    Default Youth hunting rifles?

    Just wondering why it is ok for youths and women to use .243 and 7mm-08 for moose, black bear and caribou but "men" need 300's or medium bores as a minimum? I have even seen that men need medium bores for sheep in case a bear is in the area. I undertand most will be backed up by a man. I don't give Stranger many props(because he does not need me to or care if I do) but I must think he thinks he shoots differant animals than most do. I picked stranger out because he has much experience and people like his posts. Shoot I know people that swear by the 22-250 for deer but sneer at the .223 as worthless.

    It is not much differant from stranger,except the FMJ's, for many others that I have hunted with or talked to. They do not seem to know that they have been undergunned or that their ammo is inadequate but they "ethically" get game all the time.

    Just thought it would be great for conversation,

    Dan
    It is nice to know that there are "ALASKANS" out there, no matter where they live.

  2. #2
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    Default gun control == hitting what you aim at

    I think its mostly all (like when there's backup shooters with larger rounds) about shot placement.

    So yes, if wimen and chillen are better off hitting what they aim at with a little Remington .223 youth model (I love that model, myself; so light you can shoot it like a pistol) then thats what you should get'm.

    Just be next to them with a big bore - - - - in case.

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    Member alaskabliss's Avatar
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    I have a hard rule in my family, if you can't shoot the appropriat gun for the appropriat game then you don't get to hunt that animal until you can. I do not think shooting an animal with an undersized gun, then following it up with a bigger gun is ethical. The smallest rifle in our home for moose and caribou is an 30-06. Keep shots close until they can prove there shot placement when amped up and then move form there.

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    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    Just as a point of conversation.... many men (and very few women) are woefully afflicted with magnumitis and carry far more gun than they really need.

    While not among our greater sins it is prevalent and apparently uncurable.

    That said however- "too dead" is not nearly the sticky problem "not dead enough" is....

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    I would say your not accounting for all the variables in gun selection, father.
    When a 6 ft. 200 pound male selects a rifle, he will generally be comfortable with a heavier, harder kicking gun. Therefore, his choice of calibers is greater.
    The 5 ft. 120 pound (or even smaller) woman or child will not be comfortable with 10 pound rifles or 7 pound mule kickers. So women and children gun selection is a different ball game than adult size males.
    I used a 30 ought for many years but then in the 90s was doing some time as an asst guide, mostly for bear here in western Ak. Decided to get a 300 in WSM. I love that gun now. Moose, bear, Ox, and bou it is great. Kick is manageable too.

    The term "more gun than you need" is pretty subjective and often used in the light of 20/20 hindsight.
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
    I have less friends now!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskabliss View Post
    I do not think shooting an animal with an undersized gun, then following it up with a bigger gun is ethical.
    Right-o.

    But that little .223 Remington Youth Model I mentioned is just right (though at the small end of the spectrum) for deer, but you wouldn't want that to be the largest caliber in your group, in case you run across a bear.

  7. #7
    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Yet another thread that will turn into yet another "discussion" on what caliber is not enough for such-and-such animal <grin>.

    I was told prior to moving to the bush, by many experienced hunters, back in 1980, that the ought-six I originally came up with wasn't enough gun, I could run into a grizzer bear, OMG, and that the .338 would knock moose down every time.

    So I sold the ought-six and bought a nice .338. Weighed just over 9lbs with scope. It did knock over moose, used it for a couple years and found it was just too heavy to pack, too heavy as my all around rifle. Sold that and got one of those old Remington Mohawks with the dogleg bolt, in .243. Used that for a number of years, have always reloaded all my own ammo and continued to use nosler partitions in that, 90grain in this case iirc, and it worked fine for moose and caribou and black bear, killed a lot of game with it, never lost anything, but with the shorter barrel it just didn't shoot as well as I liked, so I "moved up" <grin> to what was to be my final caliber and rifle, a custom Win. Featherweight in .257 Ackley Improved.

    God I loved that rifle! Shot under MOA, was light, killed a lot of game with that too using Nosler partitions. Lost it to the river when the whole family swamped/wiped in the gorge as we were floating out to town just after breakup in high (and very cold!) water. Bad scene, we were lucky to survive. Rifle was tied in to a thwart by the sling. Found canoe a mile downstream turned over up against some boulders, all that was there was the sling and swivels and studs, force pulled the studs out of stock. Never did find the rifle.

    Friend of the family donated an old Rem. 7mm mag, which is what I've primarily used ever since. That and a .270 that is technically my daughter's.

    Bullet placement and the right kind of bullet, along with practice practice practice with that weapon and learning how to stalk and get as close as you can are what really matters to effectively and ethically kill game. We can argue this yet again for 8 pages until we are all blue in the face. Yeah, there are exceptions, like if you are a guide, or specifically after big bears, as far as a bigger caliber being more prudent. But for the normal non-guide hunter who knows his or her stuff, you just don't need a big magnum to put food on the table year in and year out, neither do you need it for "bear protection" in the field. The best bear protection is the human brain and field experience and common sense.

    I still wish I had that .257! <grin>

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskabliss View Post
    I have a hard rule in my family, if you can't shoot the appropriat gun for the appropriat game then you don't get to hunt that animal until you can. I do not think shooting an animal with an undersized gun, then following it up with a bigger gun is ethical. The smallest rifle in our home for moose and caribou is an 30-06. Keep shots close until they can prove there shot placement when amped up and then move form there.
    So a proven round like a .30-30, 270 and 7mm mag is out for a moose and caribou round based on....What about the weatherby cartridges? I ask WHY? I have witnessed many 1 shot 270 kills on moose even by kids on their first hunt as well as men on their 20th. I have never seen a lost or wounded chased animal with these smaller cartridges. I have seen it with super fast cartridges.

    Before you reply ,keep in mind, I have shot a .338 for 20 years as my main big game rifle and have disowned the super premium bullets in this cartridge for moose due to experience.

    Dan
    Last edited by Father of 2; 07-01-2011 at 02:10. Reason: I shoot a big gun
    It is nice to know that there are "ALASKANS" out there, no matter where they live.

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    I like Accuracy, 'cause it's "where its at".......and that's why I like the ammo/rifle combo I have now.
    I also used several other rifles after losing a nice Rem700ADL .243W to a river myself.100 Grn.Corloks all the doo da day that baby was a good 300 yard rifle all week long.

    Ive tryed many others, and alotta different rounds......

    My oldest Daughter caught her first Caribou with one shot from a .223, FMJ out of a Chinese Type 84 ~LOL!~ She shot it in the head, without a flinch, when she was 9 years old and already a practiced shot.

    Get a Rifle that shoots consistently with bullets that move and fly consistently, any that bullet into the right place, that's the gun and ammo combo you want.

    The Rifle in your hands is the best Pistol for Bears.

    I dont mind when a fella agrees with me, thats not often and pretty cool.
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

  10. #10
    Member roughneck6883's Avatar
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    well in my opinion accuacy is more improtant than size. my wife hunts with a .308 ......but she doesnt hunt alone.she just started a few years ago, so I accompany her. I use a .300 win mag I got it before I came to Alaska because it is a gun I am very comfortable with in terms of recoil and I am extremely comfortable with its accuracy.
    Does this mean I have a bigger rifle because I am a man? no befor I got my .300 I had a .270. I killed a few Elk with it. I would still have it if I hadnt got my .300 (even in alaska).and the only reason I bought my .300 was the price. not because of the size I planned on selling it till I shot it. as for why my wife has a smaller rifle and why my son will shoot a smaller is for comfort so they like to shoot and the gun does its job and they can be accurate ....my 2 cents
    "Horns make pi$* poor soup"

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father of 2 View Post
    Just wondering why it is ok for youths and women to use .243 and 7mm-08 for moose, black bear and caribou but "men" need 300's or medium bores as a minimum? I have even seen that men need medium bores for sheep in case a bear is in the area. I undertand most will be backed up by a man. I don't give Stranger many props(because he does not need me to or care if I do) but I must think he thinks he shoots differant animals than most do. I picked stranger out because he has much experience and people like his posts. Shoot I know people that swear by the 22-250 for deer but sneer at the .223 as worthless.

    It is not much differant from stranger,except the FMJ's, for many others that I have hunted with or talked to. They do not seem to know that they have been undergunned or that their ammo is inadequate but they "ethically" get game all the time.

    Just thought it would be great for conversation,

    Dan
    If just conversing ....As you all are aware ...a centerfire is generally all that is required for big game, with exceptions including the 22LR in that special caribou area. For bison, suggest your bigger bores 338. [Add handguns into the mix and the huge diameter bullets from the 380ACP, makes me think my 380's would be the real gem for hunting? (J/k)]

    When my parents, siblings, and friends visit, they usually shoot what I loan them (unless they bring their own weapon). My mom (she's small framed) has shot and taken big game using a 300 win mag equipped with a muzzlebrake. Dad uses his own rifles. I generally take a bigger bore for a camp gun (>.375 cal in brown bear territory, >300 win elsewhere). When it comes to hunting, we generally like less damage to the meat and rely on bullet placement or use the archery equipment or smaller bores with bullets that have great weight retention.

    If buying the special youth rifle, why not buy a different (smaller caliber such as a 243, 25-06, 270 Win) caliber and have the hunting ability with smaller bullets (less meat damage) for game like caribou. Hunt together. If one rifle is better fit for for the intended species at the actual range, then trade guns accordingly for the shot.

    One advantage for the youth gun to be the same caliber as yours is that if one of the party leaves their bullets at home, both can share bullets rather than have one gun and one walking stick.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by strangerinastrangeland View Post
    My oldest Daughter caught her first Caribou with one shot from a .223, FMJ out of a Chinese Type 84 ~LOL!~ She shot it in the head, without a flinch, when she was 9 years old and already a practiced shot.
    Yeah buddy! Wish I coulda seen the look on her face, musta been classic!
    Sounds like one helluva huntin' pardner. maybe she earned a spot as your back-up with that type-84?

    I guess that caribou never knew it only got shot by a "worthless" .223

    good thread.
    "When the time comes for a man to look his Maker in the eye, where better could the meeting be held than in the wilderness?"

  13. #13

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    My wife and I both hunt with the same caliber .308 . Nice to be able to share ammo and I certainly don't feel handicapped with a "women's rifle"

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