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Thread: Bear gun

  1. #1
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    Default Bear gun

    Recently i had 3 grizzleys come right up to me. I had my 375. My dad had his 12g. He shot two warning shots to scare the bears off. I want to buy a gun with more rounds now just for that reason so i can have warning shots. I don't want to spend a lot. $650 max. I was thniking a 12g. or a mini 30 from ruger. any thoughts. I really like the socom 16 but i can't afford that right now.

  2. #2
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    If you need a warning shot - 1 generally will do, a whole clip is not needed. I do not think to much of autoloaders-too many moving parts and something is likely to go wrong at the most inopertune time. A BOLT action is truly ideal. Practice the "art of being a hunter" and a shooter second. Being a hunter allows for you to think things out and "make the shot". Socom thinkers and the like are counting on some 20 shots to make the kill-NOT! I hope that is rational enough without dampening your desire to buy a Socom 16- there is a place for that syle of firearm but it is not in the DG field or enviroment. Just my .02

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    I agree with Grizz, bolts the way to go. dont give up a big bullet for quantity.

    That being said, the socom is a bad rifle. I have looked at one more than once but I cant justify the price to have a range gun. I wont use it for hunting and it would just be to punch holes in paper. real nice rifle though.

  4. #4
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    Thumbs up packiní the right stuff

    I guess defining “came right up to me” should be related in terms of how fast and how close… able to be ‘gauged’ (quantifiable) vs. so individually subjective.

    Then --- did you in actual fact require warning shots in deterrence making you feel better (obviously not by the case of your post) or would a stern voice have done the trick - but your not quite sure?

    Sounds to me like having the .375 and the 12 GA. Was packin’ the right stuff and indeed did not have to shoot at the Bear in defensive bravado. In other words sounds like well done!

    Having sort of what is termed KO power vs. munitions (firepower) through capacity are two very poles apart spheres of shooting when it comes to dangerous game stop capability.

    Now that said – two autos to mull over (in a most reasonable price range) that stand out are a Russian Saiga .308 WIN (7.62x51) Carbine or the Saiga 12 GA. I personally give the Saiga Carbine .308 remarkably high marks and have straightforwardly out-grouped the Socom 16. For whatsoever explanation the Saiga .308 WIN Carbine (both handy and lightweight) will deliver better than ½ inches at 50 meters and between 1”-1 ½” at 100. With Irons the other day it bested a new scoped bolt gun at 50 and 100 using the AK-47 type irons posting a 1.2” 100 group. (that was with South African match surplus in the Saiga!!! vs modern fodder in a Remington 700 adl - both .308) More importantly it has never malfunctioned. I also think it will run in the cold or wet, ice or muck, snow or sand better than ANY of the Autos!

    Two things worth mentioning on most auto riles in standard calibers ---#1 They are not meant for shooting high energy loads as a constant diet. You could introduce premature wearing of parts and also encounter malfunctions. #2 Autos w/ sufficient stop are not the sort of burst fire (if you will) weaponry, nor are they capacity-wise in addition to as easy to fire in succession quickly as a modern day MBR.

    Oh - the Ruger Mini is a total waste to even be on the list of contemplation.

    If you are looking at repeaters don’t overlook the Remington pump and the Marlin lever actions.

    I suppose the best thing you can do (my advice) is keep on toting the .375 and also look into extra capacity by means of a Ruger .454 or S&W 500 Handgun for added assurance.

    Best Wishes –
    Brian Richardson
    http://www.northernrim.com

  5. #5
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    What I use for warning shots is a little Beretta 21 Bobcat in 22lr. Any little pocket pistol would work. Those little Jennings 22's you see everywhere or even a little derringer would give the same effect. They are little, light easy to carry and they make a very loud sharp noise that scares off intimidating creatures, both man and beast. I've carried one for years and they are effective for chasing off bears when fly fishing.
    the downside is the bark is far worse than the bite; but if toting a 375 who cares, right?
    God, Guns and Guts is what made America Great

  6. #6

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    Ruger super redhawk 454 is my "noisemaker" of choice.

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    If you're looking for loads of horsepower at close range, hands down the Bennelli Super 90 with the 9 shot magazine. How can you argue about a 12 gauge designed to a military spec with the capicaty to hold 9 shots. I personally own three. Don't quote me on it, but I think the rate of fire is 9 shots in < 2.3 seconds.

    While I am not an advocate of more shots make a weapon more leathal. When an ugly situation gets up close in personal in a hurry, all bets are off. The first shot is the one that counts, but it sure makes you feel better when there are 8 more standing in line.

    The super 90 was designed to a military spec for close quarter combat situations. How much more confidence would you need than a weapon a soldier places his life in everyday. The rotory bolt is fast and most of all, reliable. But if your still on convised in an auto, Bennelli also makes a version that has a selector switch to goes from auto to pump.

  8. #8

    Default No Nonsense Bear Protection

    I have a CZ 550 Safari in 416 Rigby.
    If I need to shoot it is going to count the first time.
    If you like a repeater think about an M1 Garand in 30-06.
    Both these guns function well in harsh conditions and when
    dirty.
    Garand about $700
    CZ $799 + ammo (reload set up for less than $3/round

  9. #9
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    Thumbs up Bear gun!!

    I have a stainles Marlin guide gun in 45-70. Sent it off to www.stevesgunz.com and had an action job and one piece firing pin put in. The gun is slick as butter after the action job. Literally takes 1/5 the effort to load and lever action. I recently got X S sight ghost rings which allow super fast target acquisition. Loaded with Buffalo Bore or Garretts Cartridges, it is a whole lot of piece of mind. Best yet, weights 7 lbs and is 37 " long. Sanded down the stock, slimmed the forearm and sprayed several light coats of black spray on truck bed liner. This gun is awesome. It is for bear protection on canoe/fishing trips is Northwest Alaska. I couldnt reccomend it high enough.

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    Why would you want to carry a seperate firearm just for the purpose of sending off warning shots? What if the warning shots didn't work, would you have enough time to grab another firearm?

  11. #11
    Member whateveri8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlleninAlaska
    Why would you want to carry a seperate firearm just for the purpose of sending off warning shots? What if the warning shots didn't work, would you have enough time to grab another firearm?
    Why would you NOT want to carry more than one firearm in the Battlefield? Going into DG country is a potential battle condition, If the sidearm does not scare off the threat, Mr Bear gets it with the Express Rifle!!! Game over. Yes I AM that fast, and anyone can be if you keep your sidearm on a lanyard (just like back in the Military Days) so you can drop it to get a shot off with your primary weapon. Once the threat is over, pull up the lanyard and re-holdster the sidearm. Simple tactical to practical application...
    God, Guns and Guts is what made America Great

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    Default 22 lr.

    I think the 22 lr. is a good idea as they are light and it's certainly nice to be able to take the occasional grouse or ptarmigan for some fresh meat while hunting big game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by whateveri8
    Why would you NOT want to carry more than one firearm in the Battlefield? Going into DG country is a potential battle condition, If the sidearm does not scare off the threat, Mr Bear gets it with the Express Rifle!!! Game over. Yes I AM that fast, and anyone can be if you keep your sidearm on a lanyard (just like back in the Military Days) so you can drop it to get a shot off with your primary weapon. Once the threat is over, pull up the lanyard and re-holdster the sidearm. Simple tactical to practical application...
    And I call BS on that. You aren't fast enough to drop one firearm and bring to bear another in less than 2 seconds. Prove me wrong. And hunting in DG country is not a battlefield. You've been reading too many fiction magazines. As I,ve stated before, I have hunted in Brown Bear country while carrying nothing more than a 243. I spent 12 years in your supposedly DG country while living in Sitka.

  14. #14
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    Angry

    You want a piece of me Allen?
    BS? I spent 2 combat tours in battle conditions carrying a side and an M21. My advice comes from professional US Army Training. Tactical to Practial usage of firearms is not a heavy load of horse Shiite… Don’t be challenging me!! Have YOU been jumped in the bush by a Brown Bear? YES I HAVE! Don’t tell me brown bears are not dangerous…Hunting them in the open at 100+yds is nice, and even convenient. Hunting conditions are different when one jumps out of heavy ground cover from 10 ft away!!

    Your personal choice of caliber for hunting?
    You can carry a .22short bear hunting as far as I care - hey I encourage YOU to on your next hunt Allen. Sitka! That explains everything. Shooting from the car while spotlighting, is a poaching crime, not hunting! Sitka! I know about Sitka…

    Want proof?
    Ok! Here’s your proof. Try this; carry your rifle (I care less what caliber) as if you are stalking prey. While wearing your sidearm, (assuming you have a holster) remove one hand off the rifle in your hands without dropping the rifle and with the free hand, remove the sidearm from the holster.
    Simple, easy, effective… no sci-fi or hocus-pocus here.
    Maybe after practice, even YOU can learn the concept of drawing a weapon. I bet your old, slow-poke sorry !@#$# could pull a side and fire in less than 2 seconds!
    The trick is you don't DROP your rifle dumbass! No, I doubt it, some men you just can't reach and this one is you.

    Besides, carrying a side is for firing a warning shot- noise - not wasting expensive ammo. get it??? If you need to draw in less than 2 seconds, fire your rifle! This isn't a cowboy quick draw competition...
    My professional advice to you is don't carry a gun hunting, YOU don't need one. Your judgement, and wit should bore any animal to death very quickly!
    Last edited by Murphy; 06-18-2006 at 12:56. Reason: Removing colorful explanitives
    God, Guns and Guts is what made America Great

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    Wow I'm really impressed. Not.

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    Calm down there whatever! This is a decent forum and lets keep it that way. If this was a bar then it is understandable but it is notttt! If it is BS then it is BS - so what? Chill!!

  17. #17

    Default heres what happened

    bboy was helping a partner get into a tree stand and holding that persons shotgun and his 375 sako 5 shots 2 1 year old cubs came inta a bait at full tilt and stopped around 15 feet in front of him he dropped the shotgun of the other guys yelled bear to me and held his aim on them in a very brushy area. I was about 25 feet off to the side of him and on the bait itself I never saw the cubs my buddy in the tree and bboy never saw the sow that was directly in front of me and starting to lower her head this all happened in seconds I shot in front of her and the cubs ran behind her so I shot another into the ground telling her go bear at the same time . She went back where the cubs went bboy handed the shot gun up and went down a hill facing as we backed out . I carry a mossberg pump 590 with peep night sights. MMC extreemly accurate it holds nine rounds I reloaded as i backed out . Later that night another sow with a 2 year old cub came in to the bait . We also had to go back in to get our friend out later. here are the questions we came up with . what if both sows came in at the same time . You might not get many shots off but what is your best chance. 2 do we have enough rounds available thinking of adding a saddle and speed stock . Prepare for tunnel vision when a sow is angry and close concentrate on the most important threat .Firepower wont do it all but a socom with 180 barnes xs at 2700 might get you more time as she is spinning . All in all it was a strange season with at least 6 different grizzlies working one bait and that has nt happened before so far we saw around 13 grizzlies and 3 blacks in a 15 mile area. My best suggestion is talk load to the bear in a commanding tone and be prepared to shoot have extra bullets I am worth it.

  18. #18
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    A couple of weeks ago I had a nuisance black bear on the deck and in the yard. I happened to have my Glock .40 cal with a couple of full clips just for plinking so I used it to fire "warning shots" to scare the bear away. 1 shot into the dirt in front of the bear, then 2 more.....nothing. The 12 in rapid succession.....nothing. I told my wife to grab my 12 gauge.

    Warning shots may well be a prelude to killing shots. I prefer to have enough gun right from the start. If I'm hunting, give me a rifle. If I'm carrying for protection, give me a 12 gauge.

  19. #19
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    Default Warning shots-

    Folks, most bears don't know what warning shots are. The first coupla times they hear one, it's just a loud, unusual noise. They run because they're startled, or perhaps from fear of the unknown (I'm not a bear, so this is pure "educated" speculation based on field observation). After a bear has been through some uneventful noisemaking sessions where nothing else happened, the noise is no longer regarded as a threat. That's about the time some of them get shot. The shooter figures the bear is a man-killer because he isn't scared by the noise of the gun.

    I believe most bears that are shot "in defense of life and property" (to use the legal term) are shot needlessly. The problem is that many of the shooters are inept at reading bear body language. The other problem is that some bears are unpredictable. Put a potentially lethal, unpredictable animal in front of an uneducated shooter, and the shooter is likely to pull all his advantages while he can do so within his perception of what constitutes a reasonable margin of safety. "If he steps past that rock I'm gonna shoot him" In most cases it's a no-win situation.

    I guess my best advice to the inexperienced is to think before you shoot, and always consider shooting a bear as a last resort. This creates special challenges with respect to an appropriate firearm. If you're going to wait until you're SURE he's gonna bite you, you absolutely must have a weapon that will stop him RIGHT NOW. This is not a hunting weapon, as a general rule (yes, there are some out there). This is not "the biggest handgun I can afford" (does the bear care how much it cost?) This is why I prefer the Mossberg Model 500 short-barreled shotgun.

    Of course, many times we create our own bear problems by keeping food out where it shouldn't be, etc. The black bear incident already mentioned, where the bear was on the back porch? I don't know the circumstances in that particular case, but I do know that a number of bears in the Anchorage-Eagle River area have become habituated to raiding backyards for dog food, bird feeders, garbage and other tasty morsels carelessly left lying about where bears can get at them. Folks, we aren't living in Kansas. These two towns butt up against some prime bear habitat, and indeed, we have prime habitat right in the middle of town. Bears were coming here long before your house was built. This kind of encounter is not entirely the bears' fault. Even if your house is clean and you're not contributing to the problem, bears still see those houses as a potential source of food because your neighbors are not doing a good job of keeping things cleaned up.

    Other than that, I have no opinions on this... :-))

    -Mike
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  20. #20
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    Thumbs down Well, isn't this interesting...

    Timothy,

    Thanks for steppin' in. And, your advice is right on as usual. I do not think an autoloader is a hunting rifle except in the case of hunting varmints, particularly coyotes and certainly not for anything that might get ya' in the bush.

    Blink,
    When you say the Socom is a bad rifle, I hope you mean for this situation. It is over priced but not a poorly made rifle. I just hate that put those stupid holes in the barrel. It is sold mostly for a wannabees rifle to shoot as many shots as we can at the range on Saturday morning to impress everyone there. For the Wannabees who can afford more than an SKS, MAK-90 or an AR rifle, I guess.

    Which brings me to this quote:
    "Firepower wont do it all but a socom with 180 barnes xs at 2700 might get you more time as she is spinning ."

    "Firepower" in the hunting woods is Ahhh.....Shall we say not necessary. Also the SOCOM is a 16" 308 Win. It's ballistics are derated 308 ballistics. (short barrel, less zip) It ain't never going to launch 180 Barnes xs at 2700 fps. Those are the specs for the 24" barreled 30-06, not a 16" barreled, gas-operated 308 Win. Unless I've missed something, again.

    The mini-thirty idea for a.... what, noise maker to scare off bears....is that what I read........cause it ain't no bear gun. I'll take Strahan's advice about shots not scaring off gears because I don't know that it would work, but it would seem if you are in a faceoff situation and you are looking down the barrel of the 12 gauge, that a shot in front, in the dirt would be the only warning shot that would work and still allow you to recover if it didn't. If one is in the bait stand and "surrounded" by a herd of sows and cubs, maybe something like the Glock (and it would be easy to carry) or maybe a handful of fireworks would be effective to allow you to exit gracefully. Don't know never been in that situation.

    I don't think some of this bantor is appropriate and there may be some editing take place here shortly. Can't leave some of you alone together for five minutes! What happened? It rained yesterday and we couldn't go out and shoot! I'll allow you two to kiss and make up and try to stay focused on the subject here...it was ...bears..again, right?

    Good shootin'.

    Murphy
    Last edited by Murphy; 07-06-2006 at 10:30.

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