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Thread: king salmon cook inlet

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    Member redleader's Avatar
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    Default king salmon cook inlet

    With the extremely low returns the last several years can anyone tell me why the commercial fishery is still open? Also has anything been done about the by catch waste? Or is it all about politics and money not what's best for the resource?

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    Quote Originally Posted by redleader View Post
    all about politics and money not what's best for the resource...
    you said it, not me....

    our recently retired fisheries biologist (you know, the position in charge of the anchor and lower inlet kings, as well as razor and steamer clams) once made the statement "i am an advocate for the sport fisherman"... funny, because as a sportsman i want an advocate for the resource...
    we can see where that attitude got us.
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    redleader: You need to be more specific, which commercial fishery! Drift gillnetters take less kings than any other group. Most of the damage to the King run is caused by in river problems and the bycatch in the pollock fishery!

    homerdave: You know that the local biologist can't do anything or the Kenai river would be closed from the Soldotna bridge down just like the anchor. Then they would have to close all of Cook Inlet to King fishing all year just to make sure no inlet river fish are taken, because yes some of those feeder Kings are from here too!

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    Member hoose35's Avatar
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    Still open for the same reason sport fishing is. You can't please everyone.
    Responsible Conservation > Political Allocation

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    Member franklinfleagle's Avatar
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    its gotten ridiculous and the subsistence and sports fishers pay the price, it is mostly about money and politics, the numbers on the kuskokwim and yukon have been dwindling for years and they don't talk about cutting down commercial fishing in the ocean they talk about restricting subsistence and sports fishers on the rivers and everywhere else... pollock bycatch is finally capped this year, but 22,000 kings or so is still lots of fish being wasted... i really hope they figure out what's going on with the king salmon b4 its too late... i like commercial fishing, sport and subsistence, hopefully they will come up with a balance in the system that will work out for everyone....

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    Look at West Cook Inlet. Shut down to sport fisherman yet open to setnetters and the natives. Some fine management going on right there....
    "Ya can't stop a bad guy with a middle finger and a bag of quarters!!!!"- Ted Nugent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pike_palace View Post
    Look at West Cook Inlet. Shut down to sport fisherman yet open to setnetters and the natives. Some fine management going on right there....
    if you want to take place in a state or federal subsistence fishery race has got nothing to do with it and in state fisheries zip code has nothing to do with it... and the area closed to sport fishing is also closed to commercial fishing per EO
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MGH55 View Post
    because...some of those feeder Kings are from here too!
    What do you base this statement on?
    An extensive multi-year study designed specifically to determine if there were cook inlet fish in the feeder fishery did not document even ONE.
    this was after thousands of wild smolts were tagged in deep creek and the kenai, as well as all the hatchery tagged smolt released in kachemak bay, the ninilchick, ship creek and a couple other sites.
    Do you have better data? or are you just trumpeting anecdotal supposition?
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    Some of the small fish are outbound fish that hang around before going who know where, but management data has not helped much. How many Anchor river fish get marked?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MGH55 View Post
    Some of the small fish are outbound fish that hang around before going who know where
    What do you base this on? Do you actually "know" anything about this?

    Quote Originally Posted by MGH55 View Post
    How many Anchor river fish get marked?
    Anchor river and deep creek stocks are very likely analogous in their population dynamics, the runs are very similar in timing, fish size, etc.
    If the thousands of fish tagged in deep creek NEVER resulted in a tag recovery of one of those fish as a feeder, why in the world would you assume that anchor river fish would be different?
    prove what you know, or admit what you don't....
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    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
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    Default In a nutshell....

    Local folks hoping to target local stocks are getting low-holed by not-so-local folks fishing not-so-local portions of the local stock's range.

    It ain't rocket science.

    Folks at the end of the line are made to pay for the harvest abuses of fisheries outside of the home basin.
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
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    Member redleader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MGH55 View Post
    redleader: You need to be more specific, which commercial fishery! Drift gillnetters take less kings than any other group. Most of the damage to the King run is caused by in river problems and the bycatch in the pollock fishery
    I was referring to this years commercial king salmon openings and quotas after hearing how well some of the commercial trollers were doing, I would think there would be some cuts do to the ongoing low runs. Not sure on overall numbers though.

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    Member Roland on the River's Avatar
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    Well said MD.

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    How many 10" to 16" king have you shook off? I have shook off 10 to 20 per year when trolling in the inlet and in K bay. A fish of that size would most likely be from somewhere local not Canada or west coast. I would never assume that any tag information was recovered from any place other than the river of origin, because people don't want the information used against us. Every feeder I catch with clipped fin goes the same place that the nonclipped fish go, no information taken. Dave stop with the big words they hurt the brain of an old fisherman. I am not saying that any local fish are taken in winter trolling but I wouldn't want one to get hurt by any sharp pointy objects and end up in your or my stomach!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey View Post
    if you want to take place in a state or federal subsistence fishery race has got nothing to do with it and in state fisheries zip code has nothing to do with it... and the area closed to sport fishing is also closed to commercial fishing per EO
    And how many emergency order closures have they had? Please tell me.

    You mean to tell me them fellas in Tyonek aren't fishing for Kings right now? Get real.
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    No offense MG, but in the 20+ years i have been trolling the inlet, i could count on one hand any 10-16", let lone 20" kings that i have either shaken or kept, & this year has been the FIRST ever for a clipped fin feeder. have caught several spawners with a clipped fin, and assumed those to be the size of your average ninilchich fish.

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    I dont mean to but in here but I think another reason we are not seeing the same amount of fish come back is look at the number of bears that are on the spawning streams in the fall gorging themselves on salmon every year. Those fish are easy pickings being in shallow streems. Think about how many fish are eaten everyday by just one bear and think about how many there on each stream.

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    The commercial (mostly L48) interests are more organized and monied up enough to grease the political and administrative wheels of their interests than the subsistence and sportfishermen are. It's all about the (formerly) Almighty Greenback Dollar. Most of us subsistence and consumptive sports users just want to be left alone to do our thing and end up taking it in the shorts as a result. We sure as hell donj't have the impact that the commercial fishermen have.

    I think the biggest problem with the fisheries are the commercial draggers that rape and pillage the waters of everything and that trawls should be banned.
    Now what ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 0321Tony View Post
    I dont mean to but in here but I think another reason we are not seeing the same amount of fish come back is look at the number of bears that are on the spawning streams in the fall gorging themselves on salmon every year. Those fish are easy pickings being in shallow streems. Think about how many fish are eaten everyday by just one bear and think about how many there on each stream.
    Uh, you're freakin kidding. right?
    bears and salmon have co-existed for one heck of a long time without bears driving salmon to the brink.
    we are the "new" kids on the block... bears ain't the problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by homerdave View Post
    Uh, you're freakin kidding. right?
    bears and salmon have co-existed for one heck of a long time without bears driving salmon to the brink.
    we are the "new" kids on the block... bears ain't the problem.

    I have no doubt that the comm guys are taking their fair share and are getting more King bycatch but all I ment by this was the way that the bio's are managing things and only letting a set amount of fish through say for example the Anchor river with an in river escapement of 3,000-10,000 fish of thoes that make it to the spawning beds are actually getting to spawn before being eaten by the over population of brownies that has been allowed to happen on the pen. Think about how many fish one brown bear eats a day and how many bears are stalking those rivers and spawning beds.
    In the Kenai the salmon run is managed by the number of reds that go up the river Kings are managed as a bycatch and the F&G guys and the comm guys could care less about the kings in the Kenai. We all know how well the sonar counter works at counting kings and the run has been getting worse and worse in the last few years.

    So unless F&G let more fish through to feed more bears the king runs are going to keep declining because the cook inlet commercial salmon fishery is managed for reds, those are the money fish. So in combination the comm overharvest of kings and bears eating the spawners yeah I think bears add to the problem they sure dont pay attention to the daily bag limit

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